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Post by grannyvon65 on Jul 5, 2010 13:59:51 GMT
My grandfather was Thomas Price Williams, his father was Walter Williams. They lived at 14 Smithy Lane, Coedpoeth. My grandmother was Eliza Jane Jones, her father was John Jones and they lived at Cae Adar Farm. Thomas and Eliza married in December 1909 and had 1 son John (my dad) I would appreciate any information about the families or old photos of Smithy Lane or Cae Adar Farm. I recently visited Minera and found Cae Adar Lane but wasnt sure which was the Jones farm and I also found 14 Smithy Lane, Coedporth. I visited Minera Church and found a Mary and George Jones from Cae Adar Farm who died in 1887 but could not find the grave (which I have a photo of) of John Jones his wife Jane who died in 1913 and daughter Eliza Jane Williams (nee Jones) who died in 1926 aged 37 years and have also tried to find her death certificate to no avail. Can anyone help please. Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2010 16:36:18 GMT
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Post by annedw on Jul 5, 2010 16:54:23 GMT
Hi. Are you using the headstone for the year of death It`s possible there may have been a mistake on the headstone. She could have died in another year, but the age and date are a good match for 1889. There`s also a chance she may have died and been buried elsewhere and is only named on the stone. Have you checked the actual Minera Parish registers for Eliza Jane. If she was buried there , she should be in there somewhere.
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2010 17:28:48 GMT
Have you tried looking for an obituary in the local newspaper? If the headstone gives a date of death this will make the search much easier.
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2010 18:10:48 GMT
Hi Yvonne, I can't see one that fits The only one in 1926 is in Ruabon but according to ancestry she was 55yrs I am refering to Eliza's deathHave you checked the Minera burials register or have details from a gravestone to confirm her death details? If she died after her husband, could she have remarried and therefore be registered using a different surname? You may be interested in the link below that has photos of all Minera Church gravestones www.clwyd-mi.co.uk/eluned Where did the photo of John & Jane Williams' and Eliza Jane Jones headstone come from please? Was it from the above mentioned site - Clwyd MIs - or a family photo? Could they have been buried elsewhere ie Coedpoeth Cemetery. (NB She doesn't appear on the headstone for Walter Williams Img 7623 or on the one for Mary & George Jones Img 7637.)
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Post by tominera on Jul 5, 2010 19:04:21 GMT
1911 Census - 67 Talwrn Rd. Coedpoeth WILLIAMS Thomas Price age 24 yrs-Banksman in Colliery(Above Ground) WILLIAMS Eliza Jane age 22 yrs---Both speak English & Welsh and married 1 Year. I would also be interested to see the pic of H/S as I do not think they are in Coedpoeth Cemetery.---Tom
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Post by grannyvon65 on Jul 6, 2010 17:09:06 GMT
Hi The headstone was a family photo.
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Post by eluned on Jul 6, 2010 17:14:19 GMT
So could it be possible it isn't Minera Church?
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Post by grannyvon65 on Jul 6, 2010 17:16:36 GMT
Grave of Eliza Jane Williams (nee Jones) Attachments:
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Post by annedw on Jul 6, 2010 17:19:29 GMT
It seems Thomas and Eliza had a Civil marriage, Dec qtr 1909. Maybe they are in a Chapel graveyard.
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Post by eluned on Jul 6, 2010 17:24:21 GMT
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Post by annedw on Jul 6, 2010 17:45:34 GMT
Looking at the headstone, it only gives a date of death for John, and Eliza Jane. My Welsh isn`t that good, but could it read John Jones , loving `briod`husband of Jane Jones. also Eliza Jane Williams `briod `daughter of the above. So briod could just mean belonging to. Welsh lexican priod (adj.) own, peculiar; proper; married enw priod ,gwraig briod(n.) matron priod [mf.] (n.) spouse, husband, wife
I would say that Jane isn`t buried here. As he was living in Bwlchgwyn , I guess it would be quite close. Tom Mercer doesn`t have them in Salem Bwlchgwyn,and they don`t seem to be in Bethesda either. Christchurch Bwlchgwyn isn`t on his pages yet, but that is a church.
This is the only good match I can find for Eliza Jane. Eliza J Williams Death Registration Dec qtr 1926 Age at death (estimated): 37 Registration district: Barton Upon Irwell Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8c Page: 643
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Post by eluned on Jul 6, 2010 20:41:01 GMT
Briod = spouse In loving memory of John Jones dearest husband of Jane Jones Cae Adar Farm, Bwlchgwyn who died May 31st 1913 80 60 years of age CORPHWFWCH YE YR ARCHWYDD Also Eliza Jane Williams daughter of the above and dearest wife of T.P. Williams who dies Dec 8th 1926 37yrs of age modified to correct age at death
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Post by eluned on Jul 6, 2010 21:04:17 GMT
Anything in the Cylchgrawn Tom? and can anyone translate the missing sentence? I think the last sentence, that I haven't added, is probaly a prayer or psalm. Hi grannyvon65 I would search for an obituary in a local newspaper and with a bit of look it may confirm place of death and place of burial. Modified I meant I go with Eliza being buried in the grave, sorry for any confusion
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Post by tominera on Jul 6, 2010 21:24:32 GMT
Hi, The grave is not in Bwlchgwyn Church or Bethesda, nor in Coedpoeth Cemetery and nothing in The Cylgrawn either sorry
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Post by annedw on Jul 6, 2010 22:57:54 GMT
I`m wondering why Jane`s date of death isn`t on the head stone. The bottom part reads. Rest in the Lord Also Eliza Jane Williams daughter of the above and dear wife of T P Williams She who died December 8th 1926 at 37 years of age. "Peace perfect Peace"
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Post by grannyvon65 on Jul 7, 2010 18:02:20 GMT
Hi again Where did you find the Registration district barton Upon Irwell only that could be right as my granddad and dad went to live in the Manchester area but I didn't know that Eliza was here as well. I have looked at the BMD Lancashire site for eliza and there is no match. Could you tell me how to find it. thanks
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Post by eluned on Jul 7, 2010 18:23:51 GMT
Hi Annedw has provided the registraion details for you including the reference.
I have just checked and found it on ancestry where you are able to see the image of the actual death registration index. The index is also available in some archive departments and FHS often on fiche.
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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2010 21:11:54 GMT
The headstone reads. John Jones dear husband of Jane Jones who died May 31st 1913 aged 80 years of age 'Rest i n the Lord'
Also Eliz Jane Williams daughter of the above and dear wife of T.P.Williams (she) who died December 18th 1926 aged 37 years of age Peace perfect peace
I found the death records on Ancestry, but they are also transcribed by Free BMD. Deaths Dec 1926 Williams Eliza J 37 Barton I. 8c 643
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Post by eluned on Jul 7, 2010 21:20:23 GMT
Hi I'd already translated it
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Post by grannyvon65 on Jul 25, 2010 14:06:17 GMT
Hi
Thanks for information you gave me on Eliza J Williams Death. I have actually found it. She died in Lancashire as you quoted which turned out to be quite a surprise as we always thought she had died in Wales where she is mentioned on the headstone. So I now have another mystery - where is she buried. Have you any idea where I can start to look. I wonder could she have been cremated and her ashes taken to Wales, but dont know if they did cremation then. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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Post by eluned on Jul 25, 2010 15:56:24 GMT
Hi
You should look for an obituary in the area local to where she died.
I asked you previously if it's possible that it isn't a gravestone in Minera Parish Church and therefore the info you have incorrect?
If you are unsure about this a check for the burial of John Jones in Minera PC should give confirmation one way or the other. These are available up to 1915 at Wrexham Archives.
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Post by tominera on Jul 25, 2010 17:38:00 GMT
Hi, Hoping I am not repeating myself but thought I should mention I spotted an Elizabeth Williams(b abt 1851 which is an excellent match) aged 50 yrs buried in Plot 824 Coedpoeth Cemetery also in this grave is John Walter Williams aged 1 Hour who I would suggest is a grandson and possibly a brother to your father---pure supposition on my part and may be well off the mark.Good Luck Tom
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Post by annedw on Jul 25, 2010 17:48:17 GMT
Births Mar 1910 WILLIAMS John Walter Wrexham 11b 244
Deaths Mar 1910 WILLIAMS John Walter 0 Wrexham 11b 203
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