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Post by annedw on Jul 26, 2008 19:40:27 GMT
I`ve started a new thread for this as it`s hidden away in another one where it will probably be overlooked.
Bracken wrote below Re: BLUNT /KELLY RELATED? « Reply #11 Yesterday at 8:09pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am researching the ancestry of Elizabeth Kelly - nee Williams, 1877-1966. Elizabeth was married to John (Jack) Kelly and lived at Wesley Place Coedpoeth. Elizabeth was known within the family as "Liz y golomen" (the dove) as it is believed she was born/lived in a pub/inn called "Y Golomen" in New Brighton/Minera or Pentre Bais/Gwynfryn. Has anyone knowledge of such a pub/inn at the end of 19th century in that area? Any information would be greatly appreciated. annedw Re: BLUNT /KELLY RELATED? « Reply #12 Today at 1:12pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Closest that I know of similer is the Three Pigeons, but that is about 15 miles away in Graigfechan. The word Golomen can also be translated as pigeon. bracken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Annedw, I know of Three Pigeons Graigfechan, but Elizabeth Kelly nee Williams b.1877 was definately New Brighton/Minera/Pentre Bais born. The only reference I can find for Elizabeth Williams b.1877 in that area is in 1881 census. as follows = Father = Richard Humphrys b.1844 Co rwen Mother = Elizabeth Humphrys b.1840 Bala Margaret Williams b.1869 Pentre Bais Richard Williams b.1871 Pentre Bais Evan Williams b.1874 Pentre Bais Elizabeth Williams b.1877 Pentre Bais This seems to indicate that Elizabeth's mother, also Elizabeth, remarried a Richard Humphrys. The reference to Y Golomen is confusing me.
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Post by annedw on Jul 26, 2008 20:00:41 GMT
I`ve found them in 1891 living on Plas Gwyn mountain. in brackets is `Groun`?? Hard to make it out. Richard Humphreys 48 labourer lime b Llansyfraid Mer. Elizabeth " 52 b Llanwchllyn Mer Evan Williams stepson 17 lime quarry man b Bwlchgwyn Elizabeth Williams step dau 14 b Bwlchgwyn Richard Evans s 19 b Llanarmon, and Thomas Addison 20 b Milnthorpe Westmoreland are both `visitors` . They are both blind and both are `in Blind school` Interesting!! I spotted that in 1881 the birth places are Minera for the children and Corwen and Bala for the parents. They are more detailed now.
Edward 46 and Ann Kelly 42 are on the same page.
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Post by annedw on Jul 26, 2008 20:16:58 GMT
1901 Plas Gwyn mountain, Davies`s cottages Richard Humphreys 55 lime quarryman. b Llansanffraid Elizabeth E 59 b Llanwchllyn Richard Evans stepson 29 b Llanarmon yn Ial. Blind by accident Evan Hump (reys) Williams stepson 27 b Minera. Another stepson ?? This Richard Evans is the same as in 1891. Marriage Wrexham dist 1880 dec qtr Civil marriage. Richard Humphreys married Elizabeth Williamson. Slight diffence in the name though. Well we still don`t know about the `Y Golomen` though do we
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Post by bracken on Jul 26, 2008 21:07:44 GMT
Thank you for this information - very helpful & much appreciated. Thanks also for putting me in the "right" thread.
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Post by hilary on Jul 27, 2008 0:00:10 GMT
Hi, I was intrigued so I had a look at the 1891 census. I think that Elizabeth has a little grocer's shop in her front room to provide a second income.
Hilary - I don't know any of the family, though, just that they lived next door to some of mine!
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Post by eluned on Jul 27, 2008 7:35:23 GMT
Hi Bracken, Have been doing some research on a Kelly line so was interested in your John and Elizabeth. Is this the couple buried in Coedpoeth Cemetery? I found a possible marriage Mar 1/4 1901 too.
I took a look at Pubs and Inquests book but it doesnt feature in there. I have sent a PM. Lynn
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Post by annedw on Jul 27, 2008 8:22:19 GMT
1871 Llidiart Llwydd Carrog, Corwen Humphrey Humphreys 60 lab b Llanwchllyn Margaret " wife 64 b Llansanffraid Richard unm son 27 lab b Llansanffraid. Why can`t I find Elizabeth and Margaret in 1871 Checked the original marriage entry and it is Williamson - ref 11b 508 I agree with Hilary, it does look like grocer. Lynn, if the Kelly grave is C82 , I know where it will be, my Wilcoxons are in C85. .
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Post by eluned on Jul 27, 2008 12:17:55 GMT
Annette, Yes that must be the one and from the image on Lees site, it shows John b.1877 so he isnt the one I thought. Cannot see Elizabeths details.
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Post by margaret on Jul 27, 2008 12:52:36 GMT
What are the chances that this is the same John Kelly mentioned in the post by Tim400 on the Blunt/Kelly link ? In 1901 there is a John Kelly b. 1877 living at Wesley Place but the wife's name is Catherine.
I think that the Edward and Ann Kelly mentioned in the post by Annette are part of my Kelly line and I can find no trace yet of them having had any children.
Regards Margaret.
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Post by eluned on Jul 27, 2008 13:14:14 GMT
Margaret, Are your Edward and Anne the couple buried at the Wern? MI- Edward Kelly, Mynydd Plasgwyn, Nov 9 1898, 53yrs Wife Anne, Sept. 27 1905, 52yrs
Lynn
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Post by annedw on Jul 27, 2008 15:17:32 GMT
On Ancestry original index, Elizabeth Kelly , Dec qtr 1966 age 89 ref 8a 470. this makes her born 1877. She lived to be a good age then. Looks like the C82 grave could be the right one then. Bracken, do you live locally. ?
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Post by bracken on Jul 27, 2008 15:48:35 GMT
Hi Annedw, Yes - you have my Elizabeth Kelly, she did live live to a good age - both she and John are buried in Coedpoeth Cemetery
I have been taken aback by the response on this site to my enquiry. Fantastic site- fantastic people.
I lived in Coedpoeth for many years, but now live some distance away. Am sending pm
Bracken
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Post by annedw on Jul 28, 2008 17:01:37 GMT
I`ve trawled through 1871 Minera census, just in case Elizabeth had been missed, it can happen, but there is no Elizabeth of any surname b Bala / LLanwchllyn, so where she is I don`t know. If the two earlier children (Margaret b c 1869 and Richard b c 1871 ) were born Minera then I would have thought she`d still be there with her first husband. Oh well, I expect she`ll turn up in the PR`s somewhere
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Post by bracken on Jul 28, 2008 21:18:57 GMT
Hi Margaret, Yes you are right, my John Kelly, and the John Kelly mentioned by TIM400 is the same person. I have sent a pm to TIM400 as she is obviously part of our family, but we can't place her. I also found John Kelly living at Wesley Place in 1901 with wife named Catherine, when he was actually married to Elizabeth, nee Williams. Very curious?
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Post by annedw on Jul 29, 2008 12:39:53 GMT
The 1901 Census Date taken: 31st March 1901. As you say, John should be married to Elizabeth. I noticed though he is down as being born Wrexham , rather than Coedpoeth as he is in 1891. I cant find a marriage of a John Kelly to a Catherine anyway. . So where is Elizabeth Kelly / Williams then. I suppose there`s a chance the entry was an error.
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Post by bracken on Jul 29, 2008 19:37:39 GMT
Catherine remains a mystery for the time being - although I'm sure I found a Catherine living in Wesley Place or Wesley Row as it was in 1901 - will check on that. John Kelly b.1877 was born in Salem Road - son of Morgan Kelly and Amelia Blunt. Wife Elizabeth nee Williams remains elusive. Having known Elizabeth in her old age, I can just hear her sharp retort, in Welsh, "Who wants to know anyway"
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Post by bracken on Sept 27, 2008 20:11:01 GMT
At last I've established the true identity of Elizabeth Kelly nee Williams. Apologies to all the amazing people who kindly tried to help me earlier in this thread, for it seems I may have given wrong and misleading information.
Elizabeth's family are as follows = Living at White Lion Pub Minera in 1881 Census.
Father = William Williams b.1847 Liverpool Blacksmith Mother = Ellen b.1847 Llanferass ? Elizabeth b. 1877 Minera Thomas b. 1877 ( twin to Elizabeth ) Harriett b. 1881
So it seems Elizabeth was born in a pub, The White Lion Minera, but have no idea where the Y Colomen came from? Does anyone have any information regarding the White Lion pub in Minera or New Brighton?
Harriett married a train driver named Jones, and together with their children Henry and Elleanor moved to Argentina to to work on Argentinean Railway where they remained, except for son Henry who eventually returned to Willow Road Coedpoeth in retirement.
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Post by tominera on Sept 27, 2008 21:38:43 GMT
Hi,There is an Elizabeth Kelly b 1877 buried in Coedpoeth Cemetery 25 11 1966 aged 89 plot 8023-- I have more details if this is your relation Kind regards Tom
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Post by bracken on Sept 29, 2008 13:00:41 GMT
Hi Tom, Thank you for your message - yes I believe that is the right Elizabeth, the date corresponds with my information. I would be very grateful for any further information you may have. Thanks again for your help.
Kind regards Bracken
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 22, 2008 19:19:10 GMT
Re Kelly family-found in Parish records at Clwyd Family History Centre in Cefn Mawr: William Kelly b 1792 Bersham James Kelly b 1794 Minera Moses Kelly b 1799 Minera Elizabeth Kelly b1800 Minera James Kelly son of Thomas and Mary b Brymbo 1801 Sarah dau of James Kelly and Sarah b 1806 Minera Jonothan Kelly" " " " Thomas Kelly "" "" " " John Kelly b 1808 Minera,described as 'base child' Thomas Kelly married Mary Jones 1784 James Kelly " Elizabeth Jones 1780 Thomas Kelly " Ann Jones 1805
IT seems that Thomas and Mary were the parents of James Kelly who married Fanny Blunt.Does anyone know where the other above Kellys fit in?
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Post by eluned on Oct 23, 2008 11:23:00 GMT
Hi Anniebowen, Returned your PM x2 but you haven't opened them! Eluned
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 23, 2008 12:38:46 GMT
Apologies........but I'm a novice at this.What does PMx2 mean?
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Post by eluned on Oct 23, 2008 12:47:05 GMT
You sent me a personal message and I have responded twice! To read PMs, go to top right handside of forum homepage. You have 2 new messages Eluned
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Post by margaret on Oct 23, 2008 16:33:10 GMT
I am so pleased that 'anniebowen' has solved the mystery of James Kelly's parentage. Now the problem is to find the link between our Kelly family and the others on this site !
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Post by eluned on Oct 23, 2008 17:41:40 GMT
Sorry Margaret, I really didn't know that you hadn't got that baptism. Sent you a PM Eluned
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Post by tominera on Oct 25, 2008 14:55:54 GMT
Hi Bracken, I gave a wrong No. for plot in an earlier posting in fact the number was Lee Wetton pic IMG 8023 and the plot No 76 Also in the Plot with Elizabeth are Amelia aged 8 months bur. 17 11 1903 and John Kelly aged 85 yrs died 13 4 1962 and bur 17 4 1962-- there is quite a lot of info on LW IMG 9773 re the Williams family but only 2 are actually buried there. Will send PM later. Sorry I did not realise what I had done sooner Tom
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Post by bracken on Oct 25, 2008 20:42:55 GMT
Hi Tom, Thank you very much for the above information - much appreciated, and gives me more to work on. PM on the way. Thanks again. Bracken
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Post by eluned on Feb 17, 2009 21:28:24 GMT
Hi Bracken, Have come across this item and guessed it may be a branch of your tree Marriage Jones-Kelly Dec 26 1923 "Jeruselem," Wrexham by Edward Davies, Minister Mr Bertram Jones, Maelor House, Minera to Miss Mary Ellen Kelly, 3 Wesley Place, Coedpoeth cheers
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Post by margaret on Feb 17, 2009 21:51:40 GMT
Hello Eluned - this is very interesting because Bertram Jones was my mother's cousin ! What a tangled web we weave. Regards - Margaret.
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Post by eluned on Feb 18, 2009 8:32:50 GMT
Hi Margaret, Well fancy that ;D Its quite possible that I could've connected Mary Ellen to the wrong Kelly line but perhaps Bracken or someone else can confirm this. I was going by the Wesley Place address and nothing else.
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