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Post by ago on Feb 19, 2010 19:24:36 GMT
HELLO,ON MY WALKS AGAIN FOUND THIS BOMB HEAD,WHATS LEFT OF IT WITH NUMBERS (KC 250 B) THE EYELET IS FOR LIFTING ONTO AIRCRAFT,IS IT GERMAN OR BRITISH? Attachments:
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Post by ago on Feb 19, 2010 19:29:20 GMT
EYELET Attachments:
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Post by pierce on Sept 3, 2010 18:37:00 GMT
This is part of a German bomb one of the lightest in their armour. If found on Minera Mountain now doubt was dropped during the German air raid(s) of 1940
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Post by ago on Mar 9, 2012 18:29:14 GMT
hello pierce,here are 2 bomb parts,1 a finn of an incendiary bomb,and a detonator not part of the above found about half a mile apart, Attachments:
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Post by pierce on Mar 9, 2012 20:14:18 GMT
Ago, good to hear from you. I think the detonator is from a German 1Kg explosive incendiary bomb. The finn I am not sure about generally speaking German incendiary bombs did not have the holes in the finns and were fitted with a ring at the end of the finn, but this could well have come parted from the finn. There should be some indentification markings on the finns .
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Post by ago on May 9, 2014 18:39:42 GMT
hello been a while, been on one of my excavating walks again and came across this ww 2 - 303 bullet, that was found to be from a ww 2 aircraft crash, now in all my walks this is the first time that I have seen one like this, done a quick research cant find anything, any ideas (come on pierce) Attachments:
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Post by piercepierce on Jun 18, 2014 20:24:50 GMT
Ago, Sorry about the delay in replying. This is interesting. Is there anyting still visible on the base of the round. That is calibre and date of manufacture. It certainly .303 British ammunition, but are you sure it came from an aircraft. Could it have been left by an Regular or Home Defence unit in the area or from say a decoy site. Just throwing some ideas into the pot. Will see if I can find anything.
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Post by Hen Locsin on Jun 18, 2014 21:44:35 GMT
I can confirm that machine guns in aircraft, particularly in the early part of the war used 303 calibre. It was a long time before the Hurricane and Spitfire were upgraded to .50 calibre cannon. This was also true of the machine guns on some of our Bomber force as well.
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Post by piercepierce on Jun 18, 2014 22:49:03 GMT
Ago, On the base of the round/case if it is still visible it should be stamped with 1. Calibre, 2 Manufacturer and date, 3 type of round. Google this Head Stamps of the .303 British Service Ammunition Round and then go to the one written by Dave-cushman. This is very useful as he lists the various abbreveations.
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Post by piercepierce on Jun 19, 2014 22:57:44 GMT
Ago, This is either a tracer round or armour - piercing. If you go to www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RAFguns.htm Scrole down and there is a photo of this round. Developed after WW1. ( RAFHS08 ) That was an interesting problem, glad I could help.
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Post by piercepierce on Jun 19, 2014 23:04:18 GMT
Ago, Furher to my last post if I remember correctly but I stand to be corrected the normal load was First round normal Ball ammunition, 2nd Tracer and 3rd Armour piercing and then repeated.
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Post by ago on Jul 1, 2014 19:25:53 GMT
this is a close up of that 303 bullet, any marking have long gone this has come from Cyril c---s spitfire
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 1, 2014 20:33:01 GMT
Ago, Thats a shame, could have clearly decided if it was armour piercing or tracer round if it was not so badly rusted. However, if you go to that web site I quoted in my previous reply you will find it instructive on ammunition types.
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Post by ago on Jul 2, 2014 14:08:47 GMT
yes just been to that site raf guns, didn't know that 303 where used as tracers very interesting site thank you, these are some of my finds the 303 was also found on ruabon mountain stamped 1941,
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Post by ago on Jul 2, 2014 14:29:27 GMT
these where found at glyndyfrdwy Llangollen a republic p-47d 47-7897. that crashed on frith dreborth 1943 18 July, pilot was killed R.A.SPRAGUE (rip) these are tipped with different colours red blue & black
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Post by ago on Jul 2, 2014 14:31:55 GMT
here they are
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 2, 2014 17:16:05 GMT
Ago Thanks for that. Will see hat I can find out with regard to the photos. They look in far better condition.
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 2, 2014 20:59:49 GMT
Ago. The ammunition from the Republic P-47D is American .50 Calibre machine gun ammunition which is consistant with that type of aircrafts weapon systems. The number 42 is the year of manufacture, the letters I am still looking up. The red tip indicates that this is a Tracer round, Blue is an incedary round, Black is for armour piercing and standard ball ammunition was left unpainted.
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 2, 2014 21:25:42 GMT
Ago Further information on your .05 ammunition. .50 caliber round is 5.5 inches ( 140mm ) long seated bullet. The casing is just under inches ( 100 mm ) long. The primer end of the casing where the head stamp is 0.75 inches ( 19 mm ) diameter. The bullet is typically 2.25 inches ( 55mm ) long with 0.75 inches seated into the casing. The bullet diameter is 0.50 inches. Inrespect of the letters on the primer end these indicate the manufacturer. Numbers as previously stated the year of manufacture. The letters FA show that this round was manufactured at the Frankford Arsenal - Philadelpha, Pennsylvania. LC is Lake City Army Ammunition Plant - Independance, Missouri. Finally RA, is Remmington Arms - Bridgeport, Conneccticut.
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Post by ago on Jul 5, 2014 5:31:39 GMT
thank you for that you've been very busy a friend has had some of these bullets disarmed and turned into mantle piece decoration, about 10 years ago I found a substantial amount of 303 bullets on minera mountain about 100 yards off the mountain road leading to worlds end, they where in a small river valley by the disused quarry at 53.049986 -3.122301 I must have come across near to a 100 shells all in a line half way up the left hand side of the bank, the only explanation to this in my opinion is that they might have been shooting at enemy planes, the shells have been lost due to a garage clean out, also again not far away from another quarry in a square manmade embankment at 53.044290-3.113675 some signs of mortar firing, here I found 6 mortar screw on safety caps, these where used for practicing how do I know this, well about 1/4 of a mile away I found 5 dud mortar bomb with writing on them saying for practice use only , (or words to that effect) at 53.042816-3.127445 these had yellow or red markings on them, anyway this will be of interest to some of our readers, now if the 303 shells had the date 1940 or under on them it would probably confirm enemy usage, I cant imaging the armed forces using this area for practicing due to the steep banking and would be unsteady under foot. well off to work.
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 6, 2014 21:33:17 GMT
Ago, Interesting, the training morter rounds would suggest area used for training, regular or Home Guard, also perhaps that acounts for the spent .303 rounds or a light machine gun position either for training i.e firing range or an anti aircraft position as the area was used as a decoy site ( Q site ) Will see what I can dig up, perhaps others can throw some light on this or point us in the right direction. Cheers Pierce
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 9, 2014 23:09:17 GMT
Ago. Found information that the area was certainly used 1940 / 1941 by Regular Army units up to and including Divisional Level. In 1941 The 2nd Cambridgeshire Regiment, ( a TA., Regiment raised in 1939 ) and part of the 53rd Brigade which included the 5th and 6th Royal Norfolk Regiments and were part of the 18th ( East Anglian ) Infantry Divison T.A., used the area. The ammunition found and the mortar round s cound only have come from a regular army unit as the local Home Guard which would have come from the 6th Denbigh (Wrexham) Mid West District Number 5 Dee Valley Sector were issued with American Rifles which used .300 calibre ammunition and they only had spigot mortars.
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Post by ago on Jul 10, 2014 19:45:16 GMT
again you've certainly uncovered some vital information here, a lot of people have been looking for this info for years, one being a gentleman looking for where his farther who manned one of the mortar canons, looks like I will have to retrace my footsteps (last 10 years)and find some of those shells, I discarded 2 dummy mortar bombs by worlds end should have no problem finding them again with my detector, and they might be some mortar caps left must be some marking and numbers on them, & a quick scan on an area of marshy land to uncover those duds, good work piercepierce, I have come across a forum covering all army camps & barracks in wales some Americans one in llay that you were researching will post site soon.
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Post by ago on Jul 10, 2014 19:48:49 GMT
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 10, 2014 22:16:54 GMT
Ago. Thanks for that information, will provide another link. With regard to the mortar rounds, in my experience the fin section survive well. Also again from experience, it was not uncommon, that at the end of an exercise unused ammunition ( small arms ) would be fired off or dumped to save carrying it back. So your reference to wet boggy areas my come up trumps. I will try and find other units who used the area for training. There were units moved into the Wrexham area prior to disembarkation for the D Day landings, Plas Power camp was certainly used by both British and American forces. Also but I am sure you know of it or have visited the site, but RAF Wrexham were responsible for the Minera Q site a decoy airfield, operational from November 1941 to November 1943. Map reference SJ2648. Further information can be obtained from Wings Across the Border Volume 3. Take care looking for the mortar ammunition.
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Post by ago on Jul 11, 2014 19:40:28 GMT
ok, well been to the area that has signs of mortar use and found a mortar cap and what look's like metal banding with buckle, the cap has long lost any inscription's or numbers, there is a wooden box in this 4 sided embankment thought nothing of it at the time, but when I got home to clean these finds and saw the banding the penny dropped it must have been used to seal the ammunition in the box, also 3 detonators 2 have lost there Finns with wording ELEY-KYNOCH 12 ici 12 (ici inside a circle)
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Post by ago on Jul 11, 2014 20:14:25 GMT
had another look at 53.049986-3.122301, found again a lot of 303 shells I left them there but brought a few home cleaned them and find the date, the 303 shells have long lost any marking's only for a few 9mm shell's, about 12 in all, and all in the same place, and yes they are all in a line stretching for about 500 yards or more, I think only officers had small calibre weapons, Attachments:
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Post by ago on Jul 11, 2014 20:19:04 GMT
9mm shells, and a 303,
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Post by piercepierce on Jul 11, 2014 23:10:54 GMT
Ago Referance the 9 mm., cases. The markings tell us that they were manufactured in 1944, 9mm calibre and the H and War Department arrow and the letter N indicate the Royal Ordnance Factory (ROF) Hirwaun, South Wales. This ROF produced ammunition from 1939 to 1945. I would suggest that the ammunition is not from a 9mm pistol ( Browning ) but from the British Machine Carbine, better know as the Sten Gun and came into service June 1941 and was phased out in the 1960s. Used extensively by British and Commonwealth Forces. Fired a 9 x 19 mm Parabellum round, effective range 100 yards and the rounds were held in a 32 round detachable box magazine. With regards to the 303 casing the markings on this show it to have been manufactured in 1941, and the letters look like RA. This stands for the Remmington Arms Company, Bridgeport, Connecticut, USA. Looks as if they were producing ammunition for Britain under license. The motar markings I will try and trace over the weekend.
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Post by ago on Jul 12, 2014 3:02:12 GMT
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