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Post by jax on May 29, 2014 11:14:16 GMT
Jacob was my great great great Grandfather. His daughter, Jane, was baptised in 1832, married in 1852 (in Wrexham Parish Church) to Robert Jones. She died between 62-71. Robert then took the children to Durham (inc. Tubal Cain and Llewelyn) and re-married. I cannot find her baptism or death, nor anything to do with Jacob. I know about the census that is missing in Minera but wondered if anyone knows anything? I cannot trace her or Jacob on the 51/41C Thanks! Jax
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Post by eluned on May 29, 2014 18:31:29 GMT
Hi Jax and welcome. Are you able to share some of the details from the marriage cert please? The more info the better! eluned
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Post by frankm on May 30, 2014 5:32:23 GMT
Hi Jax, Difficulty with the death is the number of possibles. Presume you found her in the 1861 census and then not in the 1871. See the marriage took place in Wrexham so this is the most likely one.
Deaths Jun 1870 - Jones Jane age 39 Wrexham 11b 219
I have not checked the 1861 census so they could have been somewhere else.
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Post by tominera on May 30, 2014 18:26:06 GMT
Hi, There is a Jane Jones buried in Wern Cemetery, Minera aged 39 years died 4 April 1870 and buried 7 April 1870 her home is given as Rhosllanerchrugog, Ruabon Cheers Tom
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Post by annedw on Jun 10, 2014 22:38:05 GMT
1861 Bilston Staffs. Robert Jones 29 b Minera Jane Jones 27 b Llangollen Sarah Jones 8 b Bersham Robert Jones 6 b Bersham Llewellyn Jones 3 b Llanelli Watkin Jones 2/12 b Bilston
1871 High St, Rhos. Robert Jones 39 b Minera Sarah Jones 18 b Bersham Robert Jones 16 b Bersham Llewellyn Jones 12 b Llanelli. Jubal Cain Jones 8 b Rhos Elizabeth A Jones 4 visitor b Bersham
So the last child was born in Rhos.
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Post by annedw on Jun 10, 2014 22:41:55 GMT
Wern Chapel baptisms . Only one Jacob is named. DAVIES Abraham born 02-Oct-1827 bapt 19-Oct-1827 Bersham Father Jacob occ Joiner. Mother Catherine SAVAGE
1851 Bersham Catherine Davies widow 50 charwoman b Bersham Jane Davies dau 19 b Llangollen William son 16 b Llangollen.
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Post by annedw on Jun 10, 2014 22:50:55 GMT
By 1851 Abraham is living in Burslam. Still there in 1871, by now he has a son called Jacob. aged 4 born Ruabon . 1881 The family . are back in Rhostyllen, Ruabon.
Is Jacob the same father to Jane. ?
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Post by jax on Jul 22, 2014 14:23:42 GMT
Thanks for all your replies and sorry not to have replied sooner. Yes I wondered if Abraham and Jane were siblings. Also, in the Wern baptisms, Abraham's mother is a Catherine Savage. Catharine Savage appears again where she has had a child by a John Jones in 1825. Same Catharine?
Tominera does this Jane, buried in Wern Chapel, then have a headstone?
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Post by tominera on Jul 27, 2014 12:36:39 GMT
Hi, I got the details from the burial details for Wern chapel. I have not got many pics of headstones in Wern as it is all overgrown and somewhat dangerous to say the least. However on Tom Mercers site he lists a Jane Jones as being a M/I in the Wern graveyard on her own which in my book makes this a strong possibility. Tom Mercer is quite an expert recording local M/Is but you have to get in touch with him yourself as he only displays the barest details on his website.-Hope this helps---Tom
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Post by jax on Jul 28, 2014 13:33:32 GMT
Thanks Tom. You have been so helpful
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Post by annedw on Jul 28, 2014 15:04:29 GMT
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Post by annedw on Jul 28, 2014 15:13:34 GMT
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Post by annedw on Jul 28, 2014 17:11:51 GMT
This seems to be the family from Grave 73.
1871 Tanygraig Benjamin Jones 57 b Minera Jane Jones 58 b Ysbytty Ifan. Carnarvonshire Miriam Jones 17 b Minera
1881 Tanygraig Robert Jones 33 b Minera Miriam Jones 27 b Minera Jane Jones
North Wales BMD I think I`d take a chance and order the death certificate. This is the only JJ registered in Ruabon for 1870. You could always give a name for a probable informant , which is most likely Robert. JONES Jane - 1870 Ruabon Wrexham County Borough (Wrexham) North Wales RBN/22/37
Do you have the full marriage details for Robert and Jane . It might have an occupation for Jacob that may help trace him.
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Post by jax on Jul 29, 2014 17:45:29 GMT
I have sent for that death certificate so fingers crossed. On Jane and Robert's MC her father Jacob Davies is a joiner which fits with the Jacob, father of Abraham, on the Wern chapels database. Abraham and Jane are probably siblings. Looked in Wrexham PRs for a possible marriage of Jacob and Catherine Savage (info from Abraham's record in Wern). Didn't see one but, oddly, a John Jones, joiner, married a Catherine Savage in 1827. Was John Jacob's brother? Plot thickens - doesn't it always?? Thanks to Tom and Annedw for your help. Will post what I find....
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Post by jax on Jul 29, 2014 17:46:45 GMT
BTW there is a Jacob buried in Wern in 1836 who may be mine. Couldn't he wait a year so i could get a certificate?
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Post by annedw on Jul 30, 2014 22:36:04 GMT
I have sent for that death certificate so fingers crossed. On Jane and Robert's MC her father Jacob Davies is a joiner which fits with the Jacob, father of Abraham, on the Wern chapels database. Abraham and Jane are probably siblings. Looked in Wrexham PRs for a possible marriage of Jacob and Catherine Savage (info from Abraham's record in Wern). Didn't see one but, oddly, a John Jones, joiner, married a Catherine Savage in 1827. Was John Jacob's brother? Plot thickens - doesn't it always?? Thanks to Tom and Annedw for your help. Will post what I find.... freespace.virgin.net/jill.farndon25/S.html I found this on Jill Rose`s site , is this the one you found ? There are lots of Savage in the PRs . 3 Mar 1827 mar. by Banns (wcop) of John DAVIES (x) (joiner) ba. & Catherine SAVAGE (x) sp., both otp Wits: John JONES, Mary SAVAGE (x)
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Post by jax on Jul 31, 2014 8:01:22 GMT
It was. It wasn't so much the Catherine Savage as there are a number but the mix of Savage. Davies and a joiner. Made me wonder...
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Post by annedw on Jul 31, 2014 11:50:33 GMT
This seems to be an illegitimate child born before the 1827 marriage. Wern Baptisms. His name is John. SAVAGE (JONES) John JONES Miner / Catherine SAVAGE 17‐Jun‐1825 John Bersham 01‐Jul‐1825 I see you spotted this before Can we have the full details from Jane`s marriage. Residence of everyone, witnesses names. , it will all help.
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Post by annedw on Jul 31, 2014 15:19:16 GMT
In 1861 Catherine is working as a day servant at Plas Power, This is close to where she is in 1851. Plas Power Thomas L Fitzhugh 41 head. Mary Emily Fitzhugh 35 Catharine Davies 64 b Wxm
This entry in is the Wrexham Advertiser October 29 th 1864.
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Post by jax on Jul 31, 2014 15:49:04 GMT
I saw that Plas Power Catherine. She seems to be buried in Wern and I have found her on the census. Could well be mine.
The marriage certificate of Robert Jones=Jane Davies shows taht they married on the 10th July 1852 in Wrexham Parish Church. He was 21, she 20. He a collier, she nothing listed. Resident Minera. Robert Jones (collier), Jacob Davies (joiner) fathers. Witnesses Edward Jones and Elizabeth Dodd.
That illegitimate child bap in Wern could be "my" Catharine but if so, and she married John Davies, the joiner, and then Jacob Davies, the joiner, she sure got about!
Just spent some hours at the NLW checking the Clwyd FHS parish booklets. Need to review but nothing definite about Robert Jones and Jane Davies. No Jacob=Catherine in what I checked which included Minera, Ruabon and Wrexham. Onwards and upwards!
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Post by jax on Jul 31, 2014 15:51:51 GMT
Oh just opened the Wrexham advertiser obit - oh now I am excited as it mentions Jacob. Thank you! Do you have access online to the paper may I ask? Thank you!
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Post by annedw on Jul 31, 2014 17:41:15 GMT
I have access through a Library site as I`m a member, but if you go to Find My Past, you can search British Newspapers 1710-1953. Wrexham Advertiser is on it. You can still get a brief extract around your search words, and I got this without being a paid member on FMP . Yes, she is buried in Wern DAVIES Catherine Plas Power Bersham 69 died 21/10/1864 buried 26/10/1864
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Post by annedw on Aug 1, 2014 12:08:19 GMT
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Post by annedw on Aug 1, 2014 12:15:30 GMT
This is the original image , and both John and Catherine were "of this parish " Occupation is correct but it`s not a Jacob. Catherine was born c 1795 - 1800 so she was able to marry , she would have been about 27, so was the consent of parents needed for John ? Was this a mistake in the entry or did Jacob use the name of John because he was underage. Did he change his name , quite a mystery . It`s a shame there are no parents named and we don`t have a death age for Jacob.
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Post by jax on Aug 1, 2014 15:46:16 GMT
:)I saw this on film at the NLW willing the John to transmute to Jacob! Yes it is odd that it was with consent although there are a whole slew of them together so one wonders if the imcumbant was being picky. Where would Jacob and Cathetrine marry (assuming that Jacob isn't John)? I have tried Wrexham and Minera, plus Ruabon. I am not over familiar with the area so am unsure where the next nearest place would be...Rhosllanerchrugog perhaps? I am sending for catherine's DC thanks to your good offices in the obit dept. The informant may be one of the staff at Plas Power but let's hope she passed away at home and I get a relative. Every little helps as they say!
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Post by jax on Aug 11, 2014 14:40:22 GMT
Received Jane's DC on Saturday. She died when a "blood vessel bursted and choked her to death". Terrible.
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Post by annedw on Aug 14, 2014 21:17:00 GMT
Unfortunately the image is too small to see, can you scan it a larger size.
Indeed it was an awful death, poor Jane,
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Post by jax on Aug 17, 2014 10:23:47 GMT
Sorry can't make it work!
Received Catherine Davies' (nee Savage) DC yesterday. Died 21/10/1864 at Plas Power. 69. Widow of Jacob, joiner. Vascular disease. Daniel Edwards in attendance.
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