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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2008 13:10:39 GMT
This thread is following the Francis family. . there is so much information on the Annie / David Davies thread, now. I think it deserves one of its own. "My grandmother Annie married Thomas Emlyn Francis in a Wrexham Civil Wedding 1928." Annie was the daughter of David and Annie Davies Thomas Emlyn was the son of Thomas and Sarah Elizabeth Francis John Richard Francis aged 5 in 1901 joined the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. Private No 39093 16th Battalion. He was the son of Thomas Francis and Sarah Elizabeth and a brother to Thomas Emlyn. He served at home from Jan 14 th 1916 to Oct 26th 1916 - 286 days. He served in France from Oct 27 th 1916 until his death at Rouen on Aug 4 th 1917 - 282 days, in total I year 203 days. When he enlisted at Southsea on Jan 14th 1916 he was aged 20 years 8 months , he was 5ft 4in tall, and his chest when fully expanded was 37 in, expansion was 2 in. He weighed 140 lbs, A very slim young man ,who was working as a labourer He had been vaccinated in infancy and had two vaccination marks. He was further vaccinated at Kinmel Park when he arrived there in March 1916. His religion was entered as Wes(leyan) His next of kin was Sarah Elizabeth Francis, his mother, so his father must have died . They were still living at 5 Southsea Road. On Jan 16th 1918, a letter was sent to John`s mother Sarah asking her to acknowledge receipt of his property which amounted to - 3 religious books, bag, 2 pocket cases, purse, cigarette case, scissiors, cross, identity disc, photos, letters and cards. John had been awarded the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. John is commererated on the Coedpoeth War Memorial. Thomas Emlyn Francis born 21 Sept 1901 in Wrexham. Son of Thomas Francis born c1863 Coedpoeth- his father was Richard Francis born c1837 Oswestry, Shropshire. The FRANCIS family. 1901 census 6 Bridge St Southsea Thomas Francis 38 colliery fireman b Coedpoeth Sarah E wife 34 b Coedpoeth Llewelyn 9 B Coedpoeth .Leah 7. " " John R 5. " " Jesse 4. " " 1891 census 2 Weston Terrace Southsea Thomas Francis 28 coalminer b Coedpoeth Sarah wife 24 b Coedpoeth A Thomas Francis married Sarah Elizabeth Roberts in Mar qtr 1899. A civil wedding. 1881 census Smelt Row Coedpoeth Sarah Francis 39 coal miners widow b Rhes y Cae Flints. Thomas 18 b CoedpoethMiriam 9 b " Sarah A 7 b " John 5 b " Richard 3 b " 1871 census living at J Wynne Row Coedpoeth Richard Francis 34 b OswestrySarah 30 b Halkyn Flints Thomas 8 b WrexhamJane 6 b Wrexham Margret 4 b Wrexham I`m pretty sure this is the right family as Halkyn and Rhes Y Cae where Sarah was born are in the same area. Margret and Jane are probably working by 1881 , if they are still alive. Richard must have died after 1878 by the age of his son Richard. 1861 census Can`t find any of the family in Minera 1851 census Bryn Tirion Minera. John Francis 47 b Nerquis Flints lead miner Jane wife 48 b Llangynog John 19 b St Martins Shropshire mine lab. Richard 15 b St MartinsJane 10 b LLangynog James 12 b St Martins Anne 8 b Walnesgor ( probably Gwaenysgor) Is this the right family in 1841. The county details are not quite right, and the ages are a bit out but Anne 8 in 1851 was born in Gwaenysgor. I`m not 100% convinced on this one. 1841 census Ty Draw, Gwaenysgor John Francis 30 leadminer Y born in county Jane 30 Y John 11 Y Elizabeth 8 Y Richard 6 Y Jemima 3 Y Jane 1 N
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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2008 13:29:08 GMT
Minera Church Marriages 13 Dec 1862 Richard Francis miner of Berwig father John Francis miner. Sarah Jones of Coedpoeth father Thomas Jones miner. Wittnesses Joseph Jones and Elizabeth Francis
Minera Church Baptisms 18 Mar 1863 Thomas Francis s/o Richard and Sarah . Minera. 7 July 1867 Margaret d/o Richard and Sarah . Coedpoeth.
Wern Chapel baptisms. 9 March 1865 Jane Francis d/o Richard and Sarah formerly Jones of Coedpoeth
Wern Chapel Burials John Francis 32 of Minera . Miner. died 5 June 1854 buried 9 June 1854
Jane Francis 20 of Berwig died 24 June 1861 buried 29 June 1861. Daughterof the late John Francis.
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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2008 13:34:50 GMT
Thomas Emlyn Francis, was the great grandson of John Francis born Nerquis c 1804. John married Jane Watkin at St Martins on 12 March 1831.
Jane was bapt at Llangynog 15 Jan 1802, she was the daughter of Richard and Anne Watkin.
Richard Watkin of Pennant and Anne Davies of Llangynog were married on 27 Dec 1798 at Llangynog. Owen Hughes and John Davies were the witnesses.
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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2008 13:53:15 GMT
Update on John b 1804 , this seems to definately be him. All the place names, Arddunwent, Broncoed, Brychanilt, were part of the Plas Onn estate, Nerquis. MOLD MARRIAGES 1799 March 15 by Banns John Francis ba otp Jane Griffith sp otp wittnesses Aaron Francis, Barbara Davies, John Griffiths. MOLD baptisms 1799 April 28 Anne Francis 1st d/o John and Jane d/o Howell Griffiths. Arddunwent. 1801 Dec 27 Mary 2nd d/o John and Jane d/o Howell and Elizabeth Griffiths. Arddunwent 1804 Feb 12 born 8th John Francis s/o John and Jane previously Griffiths. Broncoed. 1806 May 17 th b 15 th Aaron Francis s/o John and Jane prev Griffiths Broncoed 1808 Sept 3 b 2 nd Martha Francis d/o John and Jane prev Griffiths Brychanillt.
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Jul 7, 2008 22:32:43 GMT
Annette I can't thank you enough for all the effort you put into helping me research my family history. Again, thankyou Deb
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Post by annedw on Feb 27, 2009 15:46:22 GMT
Yep, we are still digging on this one ;D ;D ;D 1871The family only seem to appear in Minera in 1851, where did they go I wonder if this is Jane. It matches her age, and where she was born and married. RG10; Piece: 5635; Folio: 7; Page: 8; Living at Pen y font fawr. Pennant Melangel. Jane Francis head wid 69 miners widow b Llangynog.
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Feb 28, 2009 23:28:40 GMT
Annette Thank you for keeping this going. It's very hard trying to research Welsh and English families from Australia especially when I don't know where a lot of the places are. Of course it would be lovely to be able visit and do some research but unfortunately out of the question. Thanks Deb
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Post by annedw on Mar 8, 2009 17:56:03 GMT
I came across these in Weslyan baptism registers. This matches other info from an army record where religion is`Weslyan`
John Francis son of Richard & Sarah of Coedpoeth born 04/03/1876 bapt 21/03/1876
Richard Francis same details as above. born 26/02/1878 bapt 02/03/1878
Robert Thomas Francis son of Richard & Elisabeth Ann ,Plasgwyn Mountain Minera, born 18/06/1884 bapt 06/07/1884
Leah FRANCIS d/o Thomas & Sarah Elizabeth of Southsea born 14/01/1894 bapt 11/02/1894
Harold Francis s/o John & Edith, 6 Caradog Road, Coedpoeth born 26/09/1910 bapt 25/11/1910
Eluned Francis same details as above born 19/06/1909 bapt 31/07/1909
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Post by annedw on Mar 11, 2009 16:32:02 GMT
HELP, Can anyone help sort these out, it all starts with this. 1851 census Bryn Tirion Minera. John Francis 47 b Nerquis Flints lead miner Jane wife 48 b Llangynog John 19 b St Martins Shropshire mine lab. Richard 15 b St Martins Jane 10 b LLangynog James 12 b St Martins Anne 8 b Walnesgor ( probably Gwaenysgor) 1861A James Francis s/o John married Charlotte Roberts d/o John at St Giles Wrexham 1871 T They are living in Berwig Cottages Minera, all born Minera except Charlotte b Coedpoeth. Problem is, the James I want was born St Martins / Oswestry. I can`t find another born Wrexham about the same time. James 33 Charlotte 29 John 9 Richard 6 Ann 5 George 4 Sophia 10 months. 1881 They have moved to Usworth, Durham All born Wrexham James Francis 43 Charlotte 38 John Francis 19 Richard Francis 17 Ann Francis 15 George Francis 13 Sophia Francis 11 James Francis 9 Jane Francis 7 David Francis 3 Thomas Francis 1891 Still in Durham, all born Denbs James Francis 55 Charlotte Francis 51 George Francis 23 James Francis 20 Jane Francis 17 David Francis 15 Amelie Francis 8 Merriam Francis 5 1861 Richard son of John Francis married Sarah Jones d/o Thomas Jones at Minera Parish Church Witts Joseph Jones & Elizabeth Francis 1861 Can`t find them in census 1871 RG10; Piece: 5655; Folio: 118; Page: 22 J Wynne`s Houses , Ruthin Rd, Coedpoeth Richard Francis 34 leadminer b Owestry Sarah wife 30 b Halkyn Thomas 8 b Wrexham Jane 6 “ Margret 4 “ 1878 Richard Francis died. 1881 RG11; Piece: 5515; Folio: 112; Page: 55; Smelt, Coedpoeth Sarah Francis 39 coal miners widow b Rhesycae Thomas 18 unm coalminer Miriam 9 Sarah A 7 John 5 Richard 3 1891 Can’t find them 1893 One Sarah Elizabeth Francis died Llansylin, Wrexham dist. Is this Sarah I can`t work this out Are these the same Francis family as before? Looking back there seems to be no link between the Davies and the Francis family. 1901 RG 13 piece 5219 folio 46 page 33 Heol Caradog, Coedpoeth David Davies 49 head coal miner b Ruthin Elizabeth wife 55 b Coedpoeth John Francis son unm 26 coal miner b “ Miriam Francis dau unm 29 Richard Francis unm 20 coalminer b “ Samuel Jones son 13 “ “ Thomas Jones 25 cousin “ “ Same Davies in 1891 RG12; Piece: 4614; Folio 125; Page 30 Bryn Heulog Coedpoeth David Davies 40 coalminer b Ruthin Elizabeth Davies wife 45 b Penygelli And 1881 RG11; Piece: 5517; Folio: 5; Page: 1; Pentre Fron, Brymbo David Davies 30 Coalminer b Ruthin Elizabeth Davies 36 b Coedpoeth So are the Davies not linked at all, just maybe taking in lodgers and entering them as family Looking at Heol Caradog, there seems to be a definate link with Harold & Eluned, but are they from the original Francis family of 1851.
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Post by jojo on Mar 11, 2009 21:37:54 GMT
According to freebmd the Sarah Elizabeth Francis who died in Llansilin in 1893 was age 36.
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Post by jojo on Mar 11, 2009 22:05:05 GMT
There is a death for Sarah E Francis, age 52, March Q 1919, GRO ref 11b page 499 But this one can't be right either - the age is out sorry
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Post by jojo on Jul 31, 2009 13:07:37 GMT
Hi All Sarah Francis married John Jones Dec Q 1885. It was her second and his third marriage. This is the family in 1891 Old Post Office Bersham RG12/461/ 92/31 John Jones, 47, coal miner, Flints Holywell Sarah Jones, 50, Flints.Rhesycae Edward Jones, 23, coal miner, Denbs. Rhos John Jones, 20, do, do Miriam Francis, 19, domestic servant, Denbs. Coedpoeth Sarah A Francis, 18, domestic servant, Denbs. Coedpoeth John Francis, 15, coal miner, Denbs. Coedpoeth Richard Francis, 13, coal miner, Denbs. Coedpoeth Samuel Jones, 5, Denbs. Southsea Miriam, Sarah A, John & Richard are mistranscribed as JONES Edward & John were sons of John Jones & 1st wife Sarah Prytherch m c1867 Samuel was the son of John Jones & 2nd wife Mary Jones, widow of Joseph Rogers m c 1885 Edward Jones b 1868 married Ann Carrington, daughter of Thomas Carrington and Sarah Hughes. According to the 1911 census their children were Sarah c1899 John Emlyn c1900 Maggie Jane c 1902 Edward Emrys c1903 Arthur 1906.
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Post by jojo on Jul 31, 2009 16:44:29 GMT
Looking back there seems to be no link between the Davies and the Francis family. 1901 RG 13 piece 5219 folio 46 page 33 Heol Caradog, Coedpoeth David Davies 49 head coal miner b Ruthin Elizabeth wife 55 b Coedpoeth John Francis son unm 26 coal miner b “ Miriam Francis dau unm 29 Richard Francis unm 20 coalminer b “ Samuel Jones son 13 “ “ Thomas Jones 25 cousin “ “This Thomas Jones is the nephew of Sarah Jones wo Richard Francis. Thomas Jones' father, also Thomas Jones was born 1843 Rhes y Cae Flintshire Same Davies in 1891 RG12; Piece: 4614; Folio 125; Page 30 Bryn Heulog Coedpoeth David Davies 40 coalminer b Ruthin Elizabeth Davies wife 45 b Penygelli And 1881 RG11; Piece: 5517; Folio: 5; Page: 1; Pentre Fron, Brymbo David Davies 30 Coalminer b Ruthin Elizabeth Davies 36 b Coedpoeth It appears that David Davies married an Elizabeth Jones Dec Q 1874 however even though her father was a Thomas Jones her parents were originally from Montgomeryshire so no relation that I can seeHTH jojo
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Post by annedw on Jun 22, 2010 6:00:50 GMT
Looks like Jojo has found another generation of ths family. ;D This has been a bit difficult to connect to ( keep trying), but seems to be the same family. www.puleston-jones.com/page10.htmHello Deb I don't know how much further you have gone back with your Francis research in the Mold area but I found some baptisms in the Mold PRs which might be of interest. They are possibly the previous generation to your John Francis ? Nov 28, 1736 - Richard FRANCIS, s/o Richard/Martha abode Fron Jun 19, 1742 - Abraham FRANCIS, s/o Richard/Martha abode Fron Dec 27, 1744 - Aaron FRANCIS, s/o Richard/Martha abode Fron Jun 14, 1747 - John FRANCIS, s/o Richard/Martha abode Arddunwent May 18, 1752 - James FRANCIS, s/o Richd/Martha abode Arddunwent HTH Heather
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Jul 2, 2010 9:28:22 GMT
Sorry I am only just replying to some posts but I've been moving house and have only regained the internet today. It's been one hell of a year so far for me with my Mum passing away etc etc etc so I haven't been keeping up with my family research. As usual I am totally confused with this new information but I'll hopefully get my head around it soon. Thanks again Deb
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Post by tominera on Jul 2, 2010 18:07:50 GMT
Hi, Just realised I have quite a few Francis burial details inc Sarah Eliz. & Thomas with good dob also David & Elizabeth Davies and the pics of headstones of both are on the LW list but detail is not very clear.I am not sure if I have previously posted these-- -will post details with pleasure if required-Tom PS Thomas Emlyn Francis, Southsea married Annie Davies, Tanyfron in Jerusalem Chapel Wrexham 24 9 1928 ;D
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Jul 3, 2010 1:56:14 GMT
Thank you Tom I would appreciate that. I always thought that most of our family had civil marriages so Jerusalem Chapel is interesting. I will let my uncle know. He is the only remaining child of Thomas and Annie. He lives in New Zealand. I'll look forward to seeing the pics. Thanks again Deb
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Post by annedw on Jul 3, 2010 7:01:33 GMT
Hi Deb, I think I`m right in saying that if a marriage was in a Non Conformist chapel, then it was classed as a civil mariage, and the registrar had to come to the chapel to record it. Chapels had to pay for a licence for marriages, so if they couldn`t afford one from their funds, then couples would use another Chapel.
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Jul 3, 2010 9:11:47 GMT
Thanks Annette
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Post by eluned on Jul 3, 2010 11:00:37 GMT
Jerusalem Welsh Wesleyan Chapel, Egerton Street. Built 1882. Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Jul 3, 2010 18:54:55 GMT
I think these are yours---Buried in Plot 725 Coedpoeth Cemetery JONES Sarah aged 56 yrs d. 24 3 1897 bur 27 3 1897 JONES John aged 55 yrs bur 19 11 1898 FRANCIS Miriam aged 70 yrs d 30 8 1941 bur 3 9 1941 Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Jul 3, 2010 19:02:09 GMT
Again in Coedpoeth Cem. but Plot 733 this time and spelt as Frances in Burial Register. FRANCES Naomi Dilys aged 2yrs 8 mths d 16 5 1905 bur 20 5 1905 FRANCES Sarah Elizabeth aged 9 mths d 29 8 1899 bur 2 9 1899 FRANCES Thomas aged 45 yrs d 25 5 1907 bur 28 5 1907 FRANCES Sarah Elizabeth 52 yrs d 16 3 1919 bur 20 3 1919 Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Jul 3, 2010 19:08:13 GMT
Again Coedpoeth Cem. buried in Plot 755 DAVIES David aged 49 yrs bur 4 10 1917 DAVIES Elizabeth aged 55 yrs bur 20 5 1918 Just hope this helps you along the way and good luck-Tom Attachments:
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Jul 5, 2010 2:01:18 GMT
Thank you very much for those photos Tom. Hope I'm not being a nuisance but you wouldn't happen to have a photo of my grandma's grave stone in Bwlchgwyn Church yard? Annie Davies. Her daughter Sarah(? aged 9) is also buried there. Deb
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Post by annedw on Jul 5, 2010 13:22:11 GMT
Is anyone else having trouble veiwing the enlarged image. All I get is a box and a red X
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Post by tominera on Jul 5, 2010 13:42:10 GMT
Hi Annette, You are not the only one ;D--I did try all three after putting them on thread and they worked perfectly---Maybe it is because they are actually Lee Wetton pics originally or am I being paranoid-will try one again on this message to see if the same thing happens--Tom Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Jul 5, 2010 13:51:17 GMT
Hi, It is now working in reverse but enlarging perfectly from icon---I have just tried Eluneds pic of Jerusalem and that is doing exactly the same---strange really as it worked perfectly yesterday when I viewed it Tom
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2010 13:54:53 GMT
Hi all I can't enlarge any of the above photos I viewed the Jerusalem photo when I posted it and it was fine then.
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Post by tominera on Jul 5, 2010 13:54:54 GMT
Hi Deb, Please can you confirm that there is a headstone and if so I will be only to pleased to get a pic and send it to you but I have a strong feeling that someone somewhere said there was no H/S---Tom
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Post by annedw on Jul 5, 2010 15:27:52 GMT
:)It could be something to do with the site, and will probably sort itself out sooner or later. I just wanted to know if it was only me.
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