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Post by annedw on Oct 22, 2008 13:12:08 GMT
I know it`s a bit out of the way, but maybe someone can help me. 1841 HO107; Piece 1404; Book: 20; District: 7; Folio: 14; Rhos St Llanrhydd Ruthin.Denbs Thos Rogers 35 printer (born in county Denbs) Jane Rogers 30 Y Eleanor 10 Y Thomas E 5 Y Elizabeth 1 1851 Rhos St, Llanrydd, Ruthin HO107; Piece: 2504; Folio: 249; Thomas Rogers head 48 printer compositor b Ruthin Jane wife 41 b “ Thomas (TE) son 15 scholar b” Elizabeth dau 12 b “ Joseph son 4 b “John son 1 b “ I can`t find the Rogers`s in 1861. I can`t find Eleanor in 1851, but in 1861 she turns up in Brymbo claiming to be from Birmingham. only the fact that Joseph is there has helped me trace her to 1841 1861 Clonud Brymbo RG9; Piece: 4277; Folio: 46; Thomas Harison ( mispelt) head 35 blacksmith b Brymbo Elinor wife 31 dressmaker b Birmingham George Edwin son 4 b Brymbo William Henry son 2 b “ Thomas Frederick son 6mth b “ Joseph Rogers brother 16 collier b Ruthin Denbs Joseph is Eleanors brother , quite an age difference. 1871 Pen Y Graig Brymbo RG10; Piece: 5654; Folio: 42; Page: 51; Thomas Harrison head 44 boiler maker b Brymbo Ellen Harrison wife 40 b Birmingham 1871 June qtr Wrexham Death Thomas Harrison aged 44. 1875 Sept qtr Wrexham Civil Marriage Eleanor Harrison = Robert Jones. 1881 Bryn Mally Old Farm. RG11; Piece: 5516; Folio: 49; Definately same family, but where is Robert Jones. Ellenor Jones wife 50housekeeper b Birmingham William H Harrison son unm 21 collier b Brymbo Thomas F son 18 “ b “ Peter son unm 16 “ b “ Alexander son unm 14 “ b “ John E son 11 scholar b Brymbo 1881 47 Wigan Road. Hindley RG11; Piece: 3774; Folio: 40; Joseph Rogers.37 coalminer. b Ruthin Catherine wife 37 b Birkenhead. Edward Rogers son 17 b Birkenhead Robert Jones 37 lodger b Ruthin So after all that , what I`m after is baptisms of both Eleanor and Joseph, to check ages are correct and could Eleanor perhaps actually be his mother. Also Marriage of Thomas and Jane the parents. There`s nothing local I can look at for this one. Of course the BIG ISSUE is why is Eleanor claiming to be from Brum, surely they are brother and sister from 1841/51. And maybe someone with local knowedge of the Llanrhydd area has come across Thomas Rogers a printer. This makes a change from all the coal miners that were in this - my Mums side of the family. I`m really stuck on this one.
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Oct 22, 2008 15:25:47 GMT
Hi I am also interested in this family. The marriage of Thomas Harrison (son of Charles Harrison, Blacksmith) age 28 and of Brymbo with Eleanor Rogers (daughter of Thomas Rogers, Printer) age 24 took place on 4th August 1855 at the Parish Church of Wrexham. The mark of William Harrison and Janet Harrison as witnesses. Eleanor must have been literate as she had signed her name. Thomas Harrison died on 21st May 1871 of Pen-y-Graig, Brymbo age 44 Occupation at that time a "Boiler maker". Cause of death 9 years of Phthisus (not sure what illness this is). The mark of Henry Harrison who was present at the death. Their children were George Edwin c1857, William Henry c1859, Thomas Frederick c1861, Charles b. 7/9/1862 - d. 31/10/1918 buried at St. Mary's Churchyard, Brymbo, Peter Harrison c1865, Alexander (my 3 x great grandfather) b. 15/12/1866 - died 1/10/1948- Married Jane Gallier (my 3 x great grandmother)on 30/5/1887 at St. Giles, Wrexham, and John E c1869. Eleanor Harrison (nee Rogers) married Robert Jones a collier of Brynmally and son of Evan Jones, a Stonemason, on 14/8/1875, at the Register Office in Wrexham. She was aged 40, a widow and living in Brynmally and her father Thomas Rogers, a Printer was deceased at the time of her second marriage. Like you Annette, I have been having the same problem, so if anyone out there who can help, we would be ever so grateful. I shall now carry on my line to present date starting with Alexander Harrison son of Thomas Harrison and Eleanor Rogers. The marriage of Alexander Harrison and Jane Gallier b. 27/2/1869 (daughter of John Gallier, a Brickmaker) of Moss, Broughton took place on May 30th 1887 at the Parish Church of Wrexham. Their children were: Margaret c1887 Herbert c1889 Richard c1891 George c1893 Ade c1894 Alexander (junior) c1899 Winifred b. 23/9/1899. (My great grandmother) All the above children were born in Broughton, Denbighshire
Winifred Harrison married my great grandfather Robert Smallwood. The rest of my tree can be accessed via Tribal Pages if anyone wishes to do so. Sharon
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Post by sceptrelady on Oct 22, 2008 15:26:42 GMT
I wonder if Eleanor/Elinor was Jane's daughter, acquired prior to marriage?
IGI has an extracted baptism for a John Rogers, s/o Thomas Rogers & Jane, December 27, 1937.
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Post by sceptrelady on Oct 22, 2008 16:01:18 GMT
Phthisus I think this was tuberculosis or consumption
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Oct 22, 2008 16:13:54 GMT
Gosh, Thomas must have suffered for a long time before his death. What an awful way to go! Annette can I ask, which line of the Harrison's does your mother come from? If you are interested I do have a picture of Alexander Harrison and his daughter Winifred which you might like to look at Sharon
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Post by sceptrelady on Oct 22, 2008 16:22:30 GMT
Have you considered obtaining Joseph's birth certificate to discover his mother's maiden name?
RTHN/02/76 1846
or GRO ref Sep Q 1846, Ruthin, vol 27, page 198
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Post by annedw on Oct 22, 2008 18:12:27 GMT
WOW Sharon, what a result eh! Actually I`m not from this line , but the Hughes that married into it later. I`m `doing` this for my cousin along with the rest of his Brymbo / Broughton lot. I`ve updated the 1881 census in my first post so it shows all the chidren at home. John E aged 11, is John Evan Harrison born June 14th 1869: died October 14th 1946 aged 77 1891 Sept qtr Wrexham St Giles marriage John Evan Harrison = Harriet Ann Pierce ( will check details tomorrow) Harriet Ann Pierce born Feb 13th 1867 died April 1st 1936 aged 68 John Evan and Harriet`s chldren were Eleanor Anne Harrison born April 1st 1893.died Nov 12th 1972 Janet Harrison born July 14th 1894 died on 30th Sept 1986 aged 92 Thomas John Harrrison born Oct 11th 1896: Connie Harrison born ?1906 died August 8th 1978. Eleanor Ann ( Nellie) married John Hughes of the Moss . John had a brother named Price. Price was my grandfather. I remember Auntie Nellie and Uncle John well, they lived in Gwersyllt, This Birmingham thing is a real puzzle, I thought at first she may have had a bust up with her family, and told porkies, but I`m not sure now with her giving her fathers name. Presumably he was alive when they married. I wonder where they are in the years I can`t find. Fingers Xed someone might unearth them , not literally though Thanks for all the details, this has certainly helped me a lot. There`s a lot of `Chapel` in these Brymbo / Broughton lot, and I didn`t know which way to go.
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Oct 22, 2008 18:51:23 GMT
SKELETON IN THE CUPBOARD?
There is one thing that is bugging me with regards to Eleanor Rogers. Her children with Thomas Harrison. I obtained a birth certificate for their son Charles 1862, as I couldn't find my Alexander's at the time and I was very surprised to see that Charles' father was NOT Thomas but Charles Harrison a Blacksmith/Journeyman. There is only one other Charles in the family, and my suspicions seem to be leading to Thomas' father Charles. If this is to be true, the mind boggles as to Eleanor's lifestyle. It may be worth my while trying to locate the other siblings birth entries to see who the father is for each. Could this be the reason why Eleanor gave a false place of origin? Also, have you noticed the age gap between Eleanor and Robert Jones! Seems as though she wasn't fussed on what age group she went for. Open to opinions!!! Sharon
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Post by annedw on Oct 22, 2008 19:23:09 GMT
Do you mean these children that you name. George Edwin c1857, William Henry c1859, Thomas Frederick c1861, Charles b. 7/9/1862 - d. 31/10/1918 buried at St. Mary's Churchyard, Brymbo, Peter Harrison c1865, Alexander born. 15/12/1866 - died 1/10/1948- , John E c1869. I`m going to Wrexham museum tomorrow, and if they were baptised in Church I can look for them. where do you think they wil be, also the baptism of Charles especially, in case a mistake was made on the certificate, they are usually only copies made by the register office from the original registers. I had one that puzzled me for ages, and when I asked them to check it, it was an error on their part. Not Wrexham I must say. But , in 1861 Charles the father of Thomas is also a blacksmith .
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Oct 22, 2008 19:50:45 GMT
Hi Annette, I got Alexander's baptism entry from Brymbo Parish Registers MF 573 page 54 bapt. Dec 15th 1866. I would imagine the rest of the kids will be there too. It's a while since I've been on this family line, so memory is a bit rusty. I obtained Charles' (brother to Alexander) birth certificate from Wrexham Record Office, so I'm afraid I can't remember the number for this record. Hope this is of use to you Sharon
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Post by annedw on Oct 23, 2008 17:05:00 GMT
Brymbo baptisms 1860 Oct 25 Thomas Frederick Harrison s/o Thomas and Ellen , Blacksmith 1864 Sept 12 Peter Harrison s/o Thomas and Ellen boilermaker 1866 Dec 15 Alexander Harrison s/o Thomas and Ellen bolier maker.
George Edwin, William Henry, Charles and John Evan are not there. B***er
St Giles Marriage 1891 Aug 3 John Evan Harrison 22 ba collier Pentre Broughton s/o Thomas Harrison. Blacksmith Harriet Ann Pierce 22 sp Pentre Broughton d/o Thomas Pierce collier. witts Edward / Ellen Pierce. Harriet signed John Evan X
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Oct 24, 2008 7:14:04 GMT
Annette, that's a shame you couldn't find the other Baptisms for the Harrison children. I will try and jog my memory as to how I found the reference number for Charles' Birth Certificate.I will let you know if any bells ring, and thanks again for helping out. I really appreciate it.
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Post by annedw on Oct 28, 2008 14:19:07 GMT
A few thoughts on Thomas Rogers. He was born Ruthin c 1803, Eleanor possibly born Birmingham 1830. Could Thomas Rogers perhaps have worked for Isaac Clarke, Ruthin In 1851 Isaac Clarke is lodging in The Waterloo (inn), Upper Clwyd St Ruthin aged 27 b Pontblyddyn , a printer master employing 1 man. Could that man be Thomas Rogers? 1861 Well street stationers shop Isaac Clarke 37 printer and publisher Catherine wife 37 b Llanfwrog.
By 1861 there is not one Rogers living in Llanrhydd, but in Rhos Street where they lived in 1851 , there is an Edward S Todd aged 34 born Manchester. Were the printing works in Rhos St ? Did he train in Manchester, a big city. 1861 Edward S Todd aged 34 born Manchester.printer compositor. Margaret 30 b Denbigh William C 5 b Ruthin John 3 b Ruthin Edward J b Ruthin. I found a death in 1858 Ruthin dist Thomas Rogers, so did the family have to move.
So it`s possible that Thomas Rogers went to Birmingham to learn his trade and whilst there Eleanor was born. I have searched in vain for Thomas connected to printing, but so far have found nothing.
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Post by annedw on Nov 8, 2008 18:31:27 GMT
What a day, trying to find Thomas Rogers, there are parishes with no Rogers at all, and some with quite a few, but only one Thomas Rogers to be found within 30 years of `our` Thomas. I looked at = Ruthin. Llanrhydd Llanbedr DC Llanfwrog Llanynys Llanychan Llanrhaedr ym Nghimerch Clocaenog Efenechtydd Llanelidan Baptisms about 6 miles from Ruthin. Is he the right one == I don`t know but looking at the ages of the family in the census, they are all quite accurate, to be expected of a man as literate as he would have been. 1803 Sept 4 Thomas Rogers s/o Edward and Catherine.This record above now seems to be NOT our Thomas. See more in following posts. I did find most of Thomas and Jane`s children. Ruthin PRs 1837 Dec 27. John Rogers s/o Thomas printer and Jane. Clwyd St. Llanrhydd PRs 1840 Jan 15 Elizabeth d/o Thomas printer and Jane Rhos St 1846 Sept 23 Private baptism Joseph s/o Thomas printer and Jane Rhos St 1849 May 6 John s/o Thomas printer and Jane Rhos St. I didn`t find Thomas E bc 1836. Burials at Llanrydd 1843 Feb 28 John Rogers aged 1 week Rhos St 1847 May 1 Harriet Rogers aged 3 Rhos St There were no Rogers in the Llanrhydd bapt register 1757/1812 and no mariages 1813/1837. So we know Thomas and Jane were in Ruthin by 1837. Anyone want to attempt the marriage ;D ;D ;D
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Nov 9, 2008 16:19:22 GMT
Annette, Have had a few moments to scootle on the computer and have found Thomas and Jane Rogers on 1841 census. Ref: HO 107/1404/20 Borough of Ruthin, Llanrhydd. Images 11 and 12 on Ancestry. Thomas Rogers age 35 Printer Jane Rogers age 30 Eleanor Rogers age 10 Thos E Rogers age 5 Elizabeth age 1 living at Rhos Street. Hope this is of help. Have been rather busy of late so haven't had much time to search. When I get another moment I will see what else I can find. I haven't forgotten about you. Sharon
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Post by annedw on Nov 9, 2008 17:25:00 GMT
I have the census Sharon, see my first post. I think as Sceptrelady suggested, getting one of the childrens birth certs might help with Jane`s maiden name. These look like the parents of Thomas b 1803, it seems that 1841 is missing for the area, I can`t find them. Also can`t find them in 1861. BUT are they the right ones, you have to prove that one first 1851 HO107; Piece: 2504; Folio: 375; Page: 4; Erw Giefi ?? Trweyn Bodlwydd Edward Rogers 78 Farmer 10 acres b Llanelidan Catherine Rogers wife 76 b " Death reg Ruthin Catherine Rogers Dec qtr 1854 Ruthin Denbighshire Three Edward Rogers deaths reg Ruthin. 1852 Mar qtr 1858 Sept qtr 1861 Dec qtr.
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Post by jojo on Nov 9, 2008 23:32:11 GMT
Llanelidan Baptisms
ROGERS, John Jul 14, 1810 (b.11) s/o Edward & Catherine Erw'r geif ROGERS, William Dec 18, 1808 s/o Edward & Catharine Erw'r Geifr ROGERS, Margaret Apr 27, 1806 d/o Edward & Catharine ROGERS Thomas ROGERS, David Apr 12, 1801 s/o Edwd & Cathe ROGERS, Anne Feb 26, 1797 d/o Edwd & Cathe
Marriage Aug 15, 1796 Banns ROGERS, Edward, otp, Ba WILLIAMS, Catherine, otp, Sp witnesses David Rogers X Edward Williams X
Unfortunately no baptism for Edward ROGERS - c1773 in Llanelidan, Clocaenog, Derwen, Efenechtyd, Llanfwrog, Ruthin
there is a potential candidate in Llanelidan for Catherine Williams age 76 in 1851: Mar 27, 1774 WMS, Catharine, d/o David & Eliz This particular one had a brother who may have been the marriage witness: Nov 20, 1766, WILLIAMS, Edward, s/o David & Elizabeth. occ Taylor
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Post by annedw on Nov 10, 2008 17:50:04 GMT
We have a problem It looks like I`ve found three of the sons of Edward and Catherine in 1851. This Thomas seems to be the one bapt 1803, living so close to his father and brothers I would think so . 1851 Ty Canol Vaenol HO107; Piece: 2504; Folio: 314; Page: 10 David Rogers 49 Ag Lab B Llanelidan Ann wife 55 b Llanfair DC 1851 Brynaui Vaenol HO107; Piece: 2504; Folio: 313; Page: 8; Thomas Rogers 47 labourer b LlanelidanMargaret wife b 46 Llanfair Dianna David Martha Thomas Jane 1851 Rhydymeudwy Trewyn Bodlwydd HO107; Piece: 2504; Folio: 378; Page: 10; William Rogers 38 Publican and butcher b Llanelidan Sarah wife 38 b Llantisilio Sarah dau 8 b Llanelidan Price son 6 b Llanelidan Oh, well
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Post by jojo on Nov 11, 2008 0:26:01 GMT
Hi Annedw I was searching the Blackwell Index CD for Cadwaladrs and found this - not sure if it helps or perhaps you already know about it Llanfwrog Mwrog Street Baptist Chapel Elizabeth ROGERS, born Jan 9, 1833, bapt Jan 24, 1833 d/o Thomas ROGERS (printer) of Duke of York, Llanfwrog Psh and Jane (NO maiden name ) I see there was another Elizabeth age 1 in 1841 so you would need to check for this one's burial but if nothing else it places the family in Llanfwrog/Ruthin area in Jan 1833...
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Post by annedw on Nov 11, 2008 18:40:54 GMT
I didin`t know about this one, but have checked it out and it`s on Familysearch. I wondered about the gap between Eleanor b c 1830 and the next I found in 1837, John. It seems like Thomas was established as a printer in Ruthin well before Isaac Clarke opened his printing works . Of course , he could have just worked for someone raher than have his own business. Pigots Directory 1835 HUMPHREYS, Peter, DUKE OF YORK, Mwrog st (taverns & public houses) ROGERS, Samuel, Market place (hair dressers) ROGERS, Samuel, Market place (retailers of beer) ` What a great idea, hair cut and a pint at the same place` ;D No Thomas Rogers though Pigots Directory 1844. EVANS, John, DUKE OF YORK, Mwrog st (taverns & public houses) No Rogers at all.
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Post by annedw on Jan 9, 2013 8:21:13 GMT
Sharon. Are you still looking at the Rogers family?
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Jan 9, 2013 17:39:34 GMT
Hi Annedw, nope haven't done much on the tree at all lately haven't had the inspiration, must be that time of the year, can't get into anything at the mo
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