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Post by eluned on Aug 30, 2010 8:31:46 GMT
I thought that was what happened when one has had too much to drink ! ;D Sue ;D ;D ;D
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Post by annedw on Sept 2, 2010 17:48:04 GMT
Is this a Royal Welsh Fusiliers badge? Sue These are. Attachments:
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Post by ago on Sept 2, 2010 21:05:51 GMT
there was a policeman morris(moi)jones in coedpoeth before and during ww2,see 1937 minera mountain aircraft crash misscellaneous.
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Post by annedw on Sept 2, 2010 21:16:14 GMT
Getting back to the Aldreds
I was looking at Salem baptisms just now and found these - they look very much like yours. all children of = ALDRED John father. Mary Jane Mother birth date 04 May 1900 baptism date 06 June 1900 childs name Gwladys Belsonnia 65 Moorside Road, Manchester
06 August 1902 Gwyneth. 16 September 1902 65 Moor Side Road, Manchester
27 November 1906 Phyllis Elizabeth, 30 July 1908 27 Moorside Road, Flixton, Manchester
02 March 1912 Thomas William 24 July 1915 25 Mooreside Road, Flixton, Manchester
30 March 1914, Hartley. 28 July 1915 25 Moorside Road, Flixton,Manchester
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Post by susanjane on Sept 14, 2010 8:40:31 GMT
Thank you for all that info.I don't know how I missed it before. I didn't think to check in Coedpoeth for baptisms. It indicates when the Aldreds visited Coedpoeth as a family. Great grandmother Harriet Roberts was buried on 17 Dec in 1914 aged 59. The baptisms of Thomas and Hartley Aldred took place soon after the death on July 19th [not 18th as per CWGC etc] 1915 of John Henry Roberts in France.So they went to support Jane his widow and her family.Maybe they had planned to visit then anyway as it was about the start of summer school holidays-as the dates are nowadays anyway. Gwladys was actually Gwladys Belmona Aldred. We don't know where the Belmona name came from. Margaret Winifred Aldred [later Ludlow] doesn't appear to be included.She was born in the Mar q 1910 . We know that the 2 houses at Moorside Road, Flixton changed numbers and are now 135 and 137. But also John's parents died in 1908 so they might have changed houses . George ,Thomas and Hartley senior had left the other cottage at some time after 1914. I believe the houses had been Aldred properties for over 200 years when they were sold. Behind the 2 houses was a long weavers shed. In the 1851 census 5 members of the family are described as cotton weavers-hand loom.How many looms were accomodated we don't know. There was also a good collection of fruit trees and some wonderful Camellia bushes.My great grandmother and my grandmother had been laundresses at Davy Hulme Hall so maybe a cutting had found its way from there. Sue Attachments:
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Post by susanjane on Sept 14, 2010 8:48:22 GMT
Hi All
I have tried to open up the Minera Parish Records but found them unavailable.
If anyone has access could they look for the baptisms of John Henry Roberts and Jane Owens children please.On the 1911 census they have William Owen Roberts aged 4 and Elizabeth 2. Perhaps they had more children after that.
I am still hoping to make contact with any descendants.
Sue
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2010 8:59:42 GMT
Hi Susanjane Unfortunately the "redzone" website, as you mention, which included the Minera PRs is no longer available.
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Post by susanjane on Sept 14, 2010 16:11:53 GMT
://www.scribd.com/doc/28912243/Salem-Chapel-Coedpoeth-Wrexham-Baptisms-1864-to-1930 One of my cousins found the Aldred baptisms on this yesterday.it comes under www.minera Ancestry.I managed to open it but haven't tried again through minera Ancestry. I managed to find the baptism of Freda Roberts the 3rd child of John Henry and Jane Elizabeth Owens. She was born on 18 june 1914 and baptised on 7 Aug 1914. This might have been a hurried baptism as it was on the eve of WW1 and he might have been ordered to go away to a camp somewhere. I have tried to find a death or a Marriage using freebmd but there are too many Marriages and no obvious deaths with age. Does anyone else know any more? 1931 would be the ealiest for a Marriage. Sue
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2010 16:22:08 GMT
Hi Sue Like I said the redzone site for Minera PRs is unavailable so you wont see any records on it. Some of the information from that site has been added by Annedw, who is the "Ancestral Investigator" on this site, on to Scribed. I didn't mention this previously because I miss read your post and thought you were wanting Minera PRs, sorry. Can you clarify for me whose marriage and death you are searching for please and we'll try our best to help. eluned
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Post by susanjane on Sept 14, 2010 22:16:39 GMT
I just ran out of time on my log in and am having to rewrite a reply!! > Gwen ,aged 91 , the daughter of Roland Roberts, does remember her cousin Freda. I am waiting to get more information from her as to whether Freda married, had children etc. Thank you for your offer of help.I will let you all know! Sue
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Post by susanjane on Oct 11, 2010 18:11:09 GMT
I have had one or two goes at finding Harriett Jones family -to no avail. Below are the details from the Marriage licence. I don't know whether the witnesses are her siblings/cousins/aunt/uncle. Is Miriam the wife of William?
If anyone has any clues then please let me know. I have a suspicion that she was illegitimate-really because I cannot find an obvious family. Robert and Sarah in Eclusham Above in 1861 have Miriam 14 and a Harriett 5 in their family and had older children in 1851.
Thanks Sue
William Roberts 22 engine driver married Harriet Jones 19 on 25th October 1873 at the Register Office,Wrexham.Both of Minera.The fathers were Robert Roberts and John Jones both deceased lead miners.Witnesses were Willliam Jones and Miriam Jones. By certificate Before James H Pierce Deputy Registrar and John Berry Supt Regr. The bride left her mark
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Post by susanjane on Oct 13, 2010 21:58:20 GMT
Hi All I am still on the trail of Harriet Jones family. There were several Harrietts born in the Wrexham district in 1855/56.If anyone can show me any baptism's or give me the cert details , including the page numbers from bmd, for any of their own familywhich might eliminate them from my search, it would help. Again if anyone can identify their own William Jones and Miriam Jones that also could help. Does anyone have any knowledge of Robert and Sarah Jones and family in Eclusham Above in 1861?Even burials might help I have looked at naming patterns in my family and they all appear to follow the Roberts side apart from John Henry and Frederick George.They were children 5 and 6. Margaret next follows the Roberts but then Albert, Rowland and Beatrice seem to follow a trend towards choosing your own names, not related ones. But they might hold a clue. My mystery lady in white on previous posts has a look of Harriet and might be a sister.In 1920 she would have been 74 if it is Miriam from the Eclusham family or Mary 66.She was married so no longer Jones. So burial of a Mary or Miriam after 1920 might help. I don't ask for much do I !! Sue
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Post by susanjane on Mar 20, 2011 23:29:34 GMT
Hi All, I am having another go at finding the family of Harriet Jones born 1855/56. In censuses she is down as born in Minera-which might be wrong.She might think that that is where she was born if she was brought up there. There are several Harriets born in the Wrexham area in 1855/56 on FreeBMD.Judging by the census returns I think that she might have been born around March /April 1856 Can anyone find a birth, death or baptism record of any Harriet born about then please? It would help to have place or parents and then I can possibly eliminate them from my search. I think that in the 1871 census she is the servant aged 16 to Robert Thomas 27 lead miner and Jane 28 in Minera.They have Rowland 4 and John Lew 2 months. My great grandmother called her 10th child Rowland. This 'might' be a clue! [Robert Thomas has a different wife in each of the next 2 censuses and had became publican at the Melbourne Arms. Rowland is with him on those 2 censuses] Harriet states on her marriage cert that her father was John Jones deceased lead miner. Her first daughter was Mary Jane. Jane was her mother in laws name.Jane Roberts After 4 more boys she had Margaret Elizabeth.The final daughter was Beatrice some 20 years after her marriage. I think that Harriet might have been illegitimate as I cannot find her family on censuses. I will be very grateful for any help with records Sue
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Post by nellie on Mar 21, 2011 17:10:55 GMT
Hi Sue, Did you consider Harriet Jones age 5 in the 1861 census. She was a boarder at 2 Albert Place, Wrexham Regis. The head of the household was Mary Povah age 68 charwoman and widow. The father was John Jones age 36 and the mother Sarah Jones age 35. They are said to be all born in Wrexham but Mary Povah could have just assumed that on their behalf. I know looking at the family's names there doesn't appear to be any Sarahs but Sarah could have been her stepmother or she just didn't get on with her. John Jones occupation is bricklayer's labourer so that doesn't fit with the marriage certificate but anything could have changed from 1861 to the date of his death. Hope this is some help. Nellie
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Post by tominera on Mar 21, 2011 20:25:40 GMT
Hi, I still think this could be your Harriet so I will put it on again as I feel there are too many good matches such as 3 good dob etc unless you know different. In Plot 2061 in Coedpoeth Cemetery are the following---ROBERTS Harriet age 59 yrs bur 17 12 1914 ROBERTS William age 68 yrs bur 14 12 1918 ROBERTS Margaret Elizabeth 26 yrs bur 1 10 1913 What do you think? Good Luck Tom
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Post by tominera on Mar 21, 2011 21:26:23 GMT
Just a couple of Headstones in Minera Churchyard which verify some previous facts Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Mar 21, 2011 21:29:45 GMT
Second Heastone in Minera Attachments:
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Post by susanjane on Mar 21, 2011 22:49:13 GMT
Thank you for all that Tom
Yes those are my great grandparents and their daughter.I don't think that I took in her burial details before.We knew that she died young.
From that we can also see that Harriet was born in 1855.I hadn't discounted the family that you had found as boarders in 1861.I wonder if anyone can find a marriage for them.Or death of John Jones perhaps.
Sue
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Post by tominera on Mar 22, 2011 19:10:01 GMT
Hi, I would just like to point out it was Nellie who supplied the 1861 Census info--not me, Regards Tom
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Post by susanjane on Mar 22, 2011 23:09:45 GMT
My apologies and thanks to Nellie ;D When I looked under Johns name I found them in 1871 with Harriet still with them aged 15.So she is a possible still. When I had tried under Harriets name and details before she didn't show up--and more than once I looked. Just shows that you need to keep trying. In 1851 a John and Sarah Jones were in Bersham, he was an engineer and they had 2 sons John 3 and William 1
In 1851 in Minera lived John Jones 59 lead miner with Elizabeth 58 Edward Jones 35 married/iron stone miner John Jones 26 coal miner Thomas 15 limer
This younger John Jones seems a likely candidate to be my great great grandfather !!Especially as Harriet puts born Minera on censuses.
So once again --does anyone have A. a burial after 1854/55 or B. a marriage for him after 1851 census?please
Also any baptisms for a Harriet Jones born in 1855 in the Wrexham District.There are 5 or 6 in BMD for that year. Also some deaths but no ages were given that early.So any burial records would help too!!!
Thanks
Sue
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Post by eluned on Mar 23, 2011 9:08:16 GMT
Hi Sue Tricky these John Jones aren't they? I have several of 'em! ;D Good luck eluned
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Post by eluned on Mar 23, 2011 9:15:55 GMT
Hi Here's a link for North Wales BMD which will give the church of marriage unless of course it was a chapel or register office wedding and then it will be listed as Civil. www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=northwalesYou probably need to search the actual parish registers for Minera St Marys unless of course the family were non conformist
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Post by tominera on Mar 23, 2011 20:18:22 GMT
Found the burials for these in Minera Church--Just possibilities for elimination or otherwise Sarah aged 41 yrs 10 6 1857 & John aged 37 Yrs 25 4 1864 Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Mar 23, 2011 20:34:23 GMT
Hi, Found Baptisms for Robert Roberts bn( New Brighton) 26 5 1874 ba 26 5 1874----Mary Jane Roberts bn (Minera) 6 2 1876 ba 1 3 1876----Isaac Roberts bn 8 5 1880 (Island) ba 24 5 1880----Frederick George Roberts bn 11 6 1885 (Coedpoeth) ba 11 7 1885---Parents for all 4 were William & Harriet Roberts and the baptisms were in the Wern Chapel. Incidentally Island was in the Wern--------I have also spotted a poss Jones Family who lived in Abbott St Wrexham consisting of John aged 46 y bur 1869----Sarah aged 34 y bur 1857 and two children Alfred 3 y 5 m bur 1867 ---Margaret aged 5 y bur 1856 all buried in the Wern graveyard---Tom
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Post by susanjane on Mar 23, 2011 23:13:15 GMT
Hi Tom
That is my family of Roberts except that William born in 1878 is missing and also John Henry born 1882/3
The 3 youngest of 10 were baptised at Salem Chapel.
So many thanks.
I don't think that it is the right family of Jones that you have found as they appear on the 1861 census.Unless John Jones had married another Sarah--which isn't impossible.I have had that scenario before.
Eluned --I have looked at the births of Harriet Jones using North Wales BMD .There are several but can anyone tell me which areas the subdivisions of HOPE and HANMER cover. And Wrexham too.
my thanks
Sue
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Post by tominera on Mar 24, 2011 20:17:52 GMT
Hi, I have just done a quick check on Tom Mercers site and there is a John & Sarah Jones buried in the same grave but I do not have any details ---I also noticed a Miriam Jones (The Witness) on his site buried in the Wern and I do have a pic of this Headstone---She died 28 7 1900 aged 47 yrs and was married to a Robert Jones who died 7 5 1917 aged 69 yrs--This would make her a contender I am sure. --Tom
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Post by susanjane on Mar 25, 2011 16:00:47 GMT
Tom--thank you for your suggestions and info. I spent a long time last night on Ancestry and bmd trying to follow these folk back.Somehow they always managed to escape me. I would follow for a couple of censuses and then the mothers first name would change or another possible line pop up.My head reeled I think that I must give up on them for a bit!! I keep hoping that some kind soul will pop up with all the info OR say '' Hiya I am part of this family and can tell you all'' ! ::)Then I would grin ;D Thanks for all the ideas. sue
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Post by susanjane on Jun 8, 2011 21:23:57 GMT
prompted by the photo of the shop in the ''Charles Littler'' thread I have included this one from the Roberts Album. Can anyone identify where this might be? And which Roberts ran the shop? It might be in Liverpool or somewhere near Manchester.It is in a very long street anyway!! Candidates are Robert born C1873/4 ,Isaac b1881. A Frederick Roberts who joined up to serve in WW1 was a tea shop manager for R Roberts in Liverpool.[from service rolls on Ancestry] Was it our Frederick b1885/6 and his older brother?? I know that Fred lived in Liverpool then as we have a postcard addressed to him and his family at 21 Colwyn Rd, Church rd,Edge Lane,Liverpool.It is a photo of my grandfather and other soldiers and was obviously returned to him. Any help that you sleuths can give me will be very gratefully received. Sue Attachments:
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Post by susanjane on Nov 26, 2011 18:22:35 GMT
My apologies--I have now refound this topic!! ;D I am still looking for an older Joseph Jones who was a lead miner deceased on the 1873 marriage certificate of my great grandparents William Roberts and Harriet Jones.Father -reputedly-of the bride.I haven't identified her positively on census returns. I suddenly saw the SALEM CHAPEL WAR MEMORIAL thread of Dec 2008 and realised that some of my Roberts family are on there. Most importantly Co Sgt Maj John Henry Roberts is down as J Henry. He was KIA-killed in Action in 1915 .He was known in the family as Jack so I am rather surprised to see him as Henry. I am trying to work out which of his brothers are also on the list. Rowland and probably Frederick G Roberts.I would like to know which Regiments they were in--apart from Royal Welch Fusiliers. Sue
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Post by hilary on Nov 26, 2011 21:00:26 GMT
Assuming that the picture above is Liverpool, I checked the 1900 directory and there were provisioners at 334 Great Howard Street - not Roberts at that particular time, but it's just one address worth looking at, possibly.
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