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Post by mo11y on Apr 5, 2010 12:12:09 GMT
Does anyone know whose wedding this is? Or recognise anyone in the photo? Some of my Kelly's are in this photo (Joseph, Sarah, Myfanwy) Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Apr 12, 2010 20:37:19 GMT
I'd guess it was taken sometime about 1920s I can see similarities between several of the women due to them having rather large noses but I can't help identify them I'm afraid.
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 13, 2010 7:53:31 GMT
Hi Molly, I'm sure the lady on the second row, fourth from the left is my great grandmother Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans). I have previously put a picture of her on the post for "Church in Bersham". I would welcome any views from any other members, as I'm not very good at deciphering old photo's. Also, the lady below Mary, I'm sure is also related. Their noses are very similar! Sharon
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 10:01:02 GMT
I thought this too and tried to check out your photo for comparison but I wasn't sure. I could do with having them side by side so will go and have a better look. Its the noses that did it for me. Sorry ladies
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 10:21:28 GMT
Hi Sharon and Mo11y, Yes it must be her, also the woman standing in front of her that Sharon also mentions. I would like to ask if the lady bearing the cross is named please Mo11y? She also has a similar look to the two previously mentioned women and the lady with centre parting wearing a locket. Seeing that I have Kelly connections I shall have to be careful what I say about the noses, they may turn out to be my rellies too
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 10:29:34 GMT
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 10:48:31 GMT
Marriages between Kelly and Williams families... Wrexham 1920-1930......None I think these two are too late. 1935 Gwendoline Kelly to Joseph W Williams 1934 Robert G Kelly to Florence Williams
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 13, 2010 14:39:10 GMT
Maybe the marriage was between the Evans' and Kelly's rather than the Williams' and the Kelly's. This side of the family tree I haven't fully looked into yet. Mary had 2 older sister's Jane and Elizabeth, so the younger ladies weren't her siblings. Perhaps they may have been Mary's nieces as they all seem to look very much like her, nose wise. Also, looking at the photo more closely, the second lady/girl on the left on the second row looks like my A. Maggie, daughter of Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) sister to Abel Williams the Baker. I would be very interested to be able to confirm the correct year of the marriage as if it may have been before Circa February 1917, then the gentleman next to the possible Mary E Williams (on the left) could very well be my great grandfather William Williams. The above date was when Wm Williams died. Or another possibility, the gentleman next to Mary E Williams (on the left) could be one of Mary's brother's, John b.1862, James b.1865 or Thomas Owen b.1867, whose son or daughter is getting married. Again, I have put basic info on the "Churches in Bersham" posting with regards to this family. I need to do a bit more research, I think!
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 14:57:56 GMT
I think the gentleman is probably the husband of the woman sat in front of him, he appears to be leaning on her chair. There's a Civil marriage in Wrexham Charles Kelly to Eliza Evans marriage in Dec 1/4 1919 also another civil one in Sep 1/4 1931 John O Kelly to Hannah Evans modified "Mary had 2 older sister's Jane and Elizabeth"Did Mary only have sisters? if so they aren't going to be Evans'.
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 13, 2010 15:48:02 GMT
Hi Eluned, Mary had two living sisters Jane and Elizabeth and three brother's John, James and Thomas Owen. Her other four siblings died in infancy so they don't count with regards to the photograph. Jane married a Joseph Jones c1874 children were Mary Elizabeth, Hannah Jane, Sarah Ann and James Owen Jones. Jane then went onto marry Isaac Jones 1887 and the following children were born to that marriage, John, Enoch, Aaron and Isaac Jones. Mary's other sister Elizabeth, after checking my notes, also died young. So only one sister married. John's Mary's brother, unfortunately I don't have any info on him. James married twice, first to Sarah Roberts who died young, he remarried to Janet Williams, children were Harold, Eveline, Edgar and Hilda Evans. Thomas Owen Evans the other brother married Sarah Ellen Jones 1886, children were Margaret Elizabeth, Harriet, Myfanwy, Norah Mary, Goronwy Owen and William Arthur Evans. Hope that helps
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 13, 2010 15:50:01 GMT
Hope this works. Wedding photo with Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) and other picture of Margaret (Maggie), Jane and Elizabeth daughter's of Mary Elizabeth Williams Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 16:32:41 GMT
The bride and groom only look young to me, between 18 and 25yrs perhaps. So if the picture was taken post WW1 up to mid '20s, DOBs would be between 1893-1907 but again I'm not an expert.
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 16:37:13 GMT
Molly, where are Joseph, Sarah, Myfanwy and what are their DOB please? and re asking this so that it doesn't get missed "I would like to ask if the lady bearing the cross is named? She also has a similar look to the two previously mentioned women and the lady with centre parting wearing a locket."Perhaps this answers the first question? eluned
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Post by mo11y on Apr 13, 2010 17:28:03 GMT
I like the comments about the noses......I have to admit my noise might be considered bigger than average and I descend from the Kelly's!! ;D The lady marked with the cross is Myfanwy Kelly b1897 Man standing behind groom is Joseph Kelly b 1839 (Myfanwy's father) Lady sat to the Right of groom is Sarah Ann Kelly nee Davies Boy in front of Sarah is Llewelyn Kelly b1911 Girl next to Llewelyn is Doris (Doll) Kelly b 1913
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 17:46:02 GMT
Hi Mo11y, Joseph looks very young! Do you think he is actually born c.1877 Sarah Ann Davies looks so much like Sharon's Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) but I guess she probably isn't related then. Do you have another photo of her for comparison please? So the photo is a bit earlier then, about 1915 ish. Would people agree the boy, Llewellyn, is about 4yrs?
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Post by mo11y on Apr 13, 2010 18:10:13 GMT
The young look obviously must run in the genes. ;D I have attached a photo of Joseph and Sarah Kelly Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 18:15:45 GMT
I would suggest (if you haven't already done so ) you check out all the marriages of Joseph and Sarah Ann's children. Were there any children before Myfanwy or was she the eldest? I have Myfanwy b.1897 Joseph b.1899 Mary Jane b.1900 Prescilla
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Post by mo11y on Apr 13, 2010 18:37:47 GMT
Hi Myfanwy was the eldest then Mary, Priscilla (Priscilla was my nan), Llewelyn and Doris.
Myfanwy married Cad Jones Mary married John? Hughes Priscilla married Harold Williams Llewelyn married Lil ? Doris (Doll) married Gordon Leedham
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Post by jojo on Apr 13, 2010 18:41:17 GMT
The lady wearing the picture hat, to the left of the bride, looks very sophisticated compared with the other ladies. As if she was working away in a city. Could she be an older sister of the bride?
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Post by mo11y on Apr 13, 2010 18:45:43 GMT
I think she looks out of place in the photo, she is dressed completely different to the other women in the picture. She looks like she might have a bit of money.
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 19:03:52 GMT
Myfanwy married Cadwaladr Jones1914 There's a Mary J to John Hughes 1919 Priscilla married Harold Williams 1921 Doris to Gordon F Leedham 1936 There's a Llewellyn marr Margaret Roberts 1939
Could it be your Nains wedding? or Mary Jane's?
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Post by mo11y on Apr 13, 2010 19:27:03 GMT
No I have checked with an older cousin whose mum was Mary J and it's not her nor my nan. It is a mystery. I am thinking it must be a close relative because Sarah Kelly is sat in the front. I have got Myfanwy,s wedding photo somewhere I will try and find it this weekend and upload it to compare wedding guests.
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Post by eluned on Apr 13, 2010 20:23:35 GMT
Sorry had to dash off to watch Holby ;D
Joseph is the only other child and I have him in the census as b.1899
Birth reg Wrexham Joseph William Kelly Jun 1/4 1899
NW BMD Marr reg Wrexham civil 1920 Joseph W Kelly to Minnie Williams/Elizabeth Weizer
Ancestry to Elizabeth Weiger Jun 1/4
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Post by mo11y on Apr 14, 2010 6:38:04 GMT
Holby was good wasn't it?!! Oopps I forgot about Joseph and yes he married Elizabeth Weager. He was known as Josh.
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 14, 2010 8:01:17 GMT
After looking on the website "Wedding Fashion Victoria and Albert Museum", there is a photo for 1915 showing the pageboy to have the same collar as the pageboy in Mo11y's photo, so I'm going to go with 1915. If this to be the case, upon closer inspection, the two girls on the left in the second row look like my aunts Elizabeth b.1898 and Margaret b.1897, then their dad William Williams (he may have been resting against the chair, due to injuries from a coal mining accident) he was born 1865 which would have made him age 50 (he also has similarities with my taid and my dad, sticky out ears!) and then his wife Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) who would have been 46 years of age at the time of the marriage. Isn't it frustrating not being able to confirm whose marriage it was. Perhaps it goes to show, that before it is too late, go and ask our elderly members of our families to highlight people in the old photo's and take in their stories of their past-times. I wish now, I had heeded this advice when I was younger.
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Post by jojo on Apr 14, 2010 8:23:02 GMT
I'm going to stick my neck out and vote that this was the marriage of Joseph "Josh" Kelly & Elizabeth "Bessie" Weager in 1920.
1) The June wedding fits the lighter weight summer clothing 2) Bessie had a brother Leonard born 1904 - I think he may be the young man with the bouttoniere in his jacket - behind and to the right of Myfanwy. As brother of the bride he would have been part of the wedding party in which case a bouttoniere would have been appropriate. There also seems to be some family resemblance there. 3) In 1901 Bessie's father George was working as a woodsman next door to Erthig Hall - perhaps Bessie worked there - that could be the tie in to the more sophisticated lady next to the bride.
Mo11y do you have the marriage certificate or an announcement from the paper for this couple?
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Post by eluned on Apr 14, 2010 9:14:10 GMT
Sounding good Jojo and a bouttoniere would be a posh man's button hole then ;D So how are the Kelly's and Williams' families related?
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 14, 2010 11:45:15 GMT
Perhaps there was no connection relative wise. On Mary Elizabeth Williams (nee Evans) Obituary (Wrexham Advertiser 17/3/1944, page 7) it stated she was a very popular member of the community. A large turn-out at her funeral took place, representatives of Bethlehem Church, Bersham Parish Council, School Managers, head teachers of the three local schools, Civil Defence and even the Royal Observer. She had participated in many activities in the district. Perhaps her popularity got her and the family an invitation to the marriage!!! Again, only an assumption
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Apr 14, 2010 17:56:15 GMT
Hi Mo11y, Hope you don't mind, I put the wedding photo onto another website in order to obtain advice of year of marriage. Two people have confirmed the year to be 1920 (shame, that rules out a picture of my great grandfather William Williams ). Apparently the hem on the bride's dress and the not so edwardian moustaches gave the date away. Hope that helps tracking down the marriage for you Sharon
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Post by mo11y on Apr 14, 2010 18:02:06 GMT
Hi Sharon I don't mind. Thanks for that. I just wish people had written on the back of photos so we knew who is who.
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