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Post by nellie on Mar 13, 2011 14:15:15 GMT
I don't know whether anyone can help me find the mother of Mary Griffiths born c1859 in Brymbo? Her father Edward Griffiths was single in the 1851 census and a widower in the 1861 census and was living in Brymbo with his widowed mother Sarah Griffiths, who was born c 1795 in Codnor Park, Derbyshire. There were 2 other daughters living with them in 1861 Harriet c 1854 and Sarah Jane c 1857 both born in Brymbo. In a later census Edward is Edward T Griffiths and remarried. Mary's mother must have died between 1859 and the 1861 census and the marriage should have taken place between the 1851 census and 1854+/- a year. As Sarah was a widow in 1841 and her youngest son Joseph was born c 1839 I would also love to know who her husband was and when he died. Thanks in anticipation, nellie
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Post by eluned on Mar 13, 2011 19:57:56 GMT
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Post by eluned on Mar 13, 2011 22:40:04 GMT
North Wales BMD does show an Edward Griffiths marrying in 1861 Brymbo St Mary's PC to either Sarah Jones or Harriet Mumford. Cross checking this with another site shows that it took place in the Mar 1/4. Of course there were several other marriages for an Edward Griffiths within the Wrexham area. www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=northwales
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Post by annedw on Mar 14, 2011 9:00:43 GMT
1861 record. RG9; Piece: 4277; Folio: 59; Page: 35 Mount, Brymbo. Sarah Griffiths head wid 60 b Derby Edward Griffiths son wid 28 collier b Brymbo. Joseph Griffiths son 19 collier b " Hariet Griffiths dau 6 b " Sarah Jane Griffiths dau 4 b " Mary Griffiths dau 12 MO b " Robert Griffiths son 11 b "
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Post by esuew on Mar 14, 2011 10:21:21 GMT
Hi,
The Brymbo parish register (transcription) shows the following marriage in 1861:
Groom - Edward Griffiths s/o Robert Griffiths Bride - Harriet Mumford d/o Thomas Mumford
However there isn't an earlier marriage in Brymbo for Edward Griffiths.
Regards
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Post by eluned on Mar 14, 2011 12:28:35 GMT
Hi Nellie A search for another Edward & Harriet aged 19yrs, couple living in Gwersyllt, he's a gardener. This could possibly be the ones marrying in 1861 as she's born Broughton 1851 shows Harriet, 10yrs father Thomas, living Brymbo and born Broughton. Does Edward's age and occupation appear on the transcription? Who were the witnesses? Have you proved the parentage of the other children listed in 1861 and posted by Annedw - Sarah Jane Griffiths dau 4 b " Hariet Griffiths dau 6 Robert Griffiths son 11 b "
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Post by eluned on Mar 14, 2011 13:18:29 GMT
I couldn't find Sarah in 1881, am I right in thinking she dies between 1871-1881 census? If so only 2 are registered Wrexham that appear to fit Mar 1/4 1876, 79yrs Sep 1/4 1877, 78yrs Death certs frequently give "widow of...." so may give her husband's name. A search for the burial, I would try Brymbo PC first, will give abode age etc and possibly plot number to enable a search for the grave. Hopefully hubby may be there too. The verger was very helpful in locating a grave for me some years ago.
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Post by esuew on Mar 14, 2011 13:22:29 GMT
The parish transcription provided by Clwyd FHS only shows the information I've provided - it doesn't give the actual date, occupation, address, witnesses etc. You'll need to look at the actual register for that.
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Post by eluned on Mar 14, 2011 14:24:09 GMT
Thanks Esuew, I've not looked at any of the more recent marriage transcriptions only the pre 1837 ones. Useful to know.
eluned
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Post by nellie on Mar 14, 2011 19:37:23 GMT
Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions. It has given me a lot to think about. Regarding Robert Griffiths son in the 1861 census I have no idea how he fits in as in the 1851 census Sarah is living with Price age 22, Edward age 20 , Jno age 15, Joseph age 10 , Robert Jones age 2 I did wonder whether Robert Griffiths and Robert Jones were one and the same. To confuse matters more in 1871 Sarah is living with Robert Griffiths 21 grandson and Mary Griffiths 11 niece. Living in Lower Mount Brymbo were Edward T Griffiths, his wife Hannah, daughter Sarah J age 14 and son John age 3. I will look at some of your suggestions over the next few days and see if anything is starting to make sense. Thanks again for your interest. Nellie
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Post by annedw on Mar 16, 2011 14:42:24 GMT
Hi Nellie , this is all I found in Wrexham museum.
Brymbo PRs bapt. Mary Griffiths searched 1857 – 1861 but not found.
25 Nov 1854 Harriet Griffiths d/o Edward and Margaret. Collier Brymbo. 3 May 1857 Sarah Jane Griffiths d/o same as above.
Burial 28 July 1860 Margaret Griffiths aged 29. Long Row , Brymbo.
No marriage that fitted in Brymbo, I think the first one here is the best bet, places and age of Margaret is a good match St Giles marriages. Wrexham 11 Feb 1854 Edward Griffiths 21 Ba Collier Brymbo, father John Griffiths collier. Margaret Taylor 22 sp Brymbo , father Edward Taylor collier. Wittnesses, Peter Cunnah , Mary Kendrick X all made their mark.
1852 Edward Griffiths 31 Ba father John Griffiths collier , Esclusham Above. Margaret Roberts 26 sp Father John Roberts sawyer.
1853 Edward Griffiths married Elizabeth Evans.
I can`t find Margaret Taylor in 1851.
I think to be 100 % sure you need to get the birth certificate and the marriage certificate of Mary Griffiths.
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Post by nellie on Mar 16, 2011 19:45:21 GMT
Thank you Annedw, you have reinforced what I have suspected for a long time that Mary's mother was called Margaret. She called her first daughter Margaret and her second daughter Maria after her mother in law. There must have been some rivalry between the fathers as the first boy was called Edward Evan after both fathers! I had narrowed it down to Margaret Roberts or Margaret Taylor but clearly the details for Margaret Taylor are a better match than Margaret Roberts. I shall now obtain the marriage certificate for Margaret Taylor and see what I can find out about the Taylor family.
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Post by annedw on Mar 16, 2011 20:36:17 GMT
I doubt it there is anything more on the actual certificate than the details I have given. These are from the original microfilms of the registers and are not transcripts. What more are you hoping to find.
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Post by nellie on Mar 17, 2011 11:13:03 GMT
Hi annedw, You are quite right about not finding anything extra from the certificate. The investigation of the Taylor family was a separate issue (one which looks as though it is going to be quite tricky). As the record did not say John Griffiths was deceased, and he apparently was, I cannot assume that Edward Taylor was not deceased in 1854. This is what I love about this you solve one mystery and find another! Thanks again I can now start with a fresh branch of the tree. Nellie
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Post by jackie on Mar 28, 2011 16:25:34 GMT
hello, i think we are looking for the same people , mary griffths daughter of edward griffiths was my great grand dad half brother. from Edwards 2nd marriage to herriet ann mudford (?). not sure of her surname. as far as i know edwards children where herriet 1854 , sarah 1857, mary 1859 , sam ( died at birth ) jan 1869, john 1869, robert ( my great granddad ) 1872 and edward 1874.
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Post by annedw on Mar 28, 2011 16:35:17 GMT
GRIFFITHS Edward Brymbo, St Mary 1861 Possible spouses: JONES Sarah C03/1/63 KENDRICK Phinehas C03/1/63 MUMFORD Harriet
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Post by jackie on Mar 28, 2011 16:52:07 GMT
sorry made a mistake ..... edward griffiths and hannah was my great grandfather parents they had sam, john, robert and edward. Mary's griffiths half brothers . according to the 1881 census
Herriet munford was robert price griffiths wife, they had 10 children that i know for .
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Post by annedw on Mar 28, 2011 21:42:25 GMT
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Post by annedw on Mar 28, 2011 22:17:44 GMT
Hi, The Brymbo parish register (transcription) shows the following marriage in 1861: Groom - Edward Griffiths s/o Robert Griffiths Bride - Harriet Mumford d/o Thomas Mumford However there isn't an earlier marriage in Brymbo for Edward Griffiths. Regards
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Post by jackie on Mar 28, 2011 22:39:52 GMT
yes ...thanks you for letting me know , i've now looked it up again and my granddad married a herriet ann JONES. But now i am left thing if edward griffiths 1872 was robert brother or may be his father b. 1833.
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Post by nellie on Mar 29, 2011 11:08:52 GMT
Hi Jackie, I too thought that Edward Griffiths may have married Hannah and had John, Robert and Edward ( I didn't know about Sam). Unfortunately I can't find a marriage of Edward to Hannah before 1868. He also has acquired a "T" or a "J" as a middle initial which casts doubt on whether it is the same Edward Griffiths who was father to Harriet, Sarah Jane and Mary. I was led to think they were the same by aSarah J living with them in 1871 as daughter and I can't find another Sarah J of that age in the 1861 census with father Edward. Do you know when Sam was born and died as it might help find a marriage? Nellie
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Post by nellie on Mar 29, 2011 11:20:49 GMT
Hi Jackie , Sorry I read these things too quickly. You told me Sam died at birth in 1869. Nellie
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Post by nellie on Apr 3, 2011 11:04:35 GMT
Hi, In case anyone is interested, the witnesses to Edward Griffiths marriage to Margaret Taylor, namely Peter Cunnah and Mary Kendrick married each other in Stoke on Trent district at the end of 1854. They then appear back in Brymbo in later census returns. Nellie
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Post by vikingtim on Oct 14, 2011 15:51:34 GMT
I wonder if there is any connection here to my ancestor, HANNAH GRIFFITHS, born in Wrexham circa 1812 [aged 39 on 1851 census], and married JOHN SHEFTON in 1835?
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Post by nellie on Mar 2, 2012 16:40:10 GMT
I think I have found the marriage of Edward Griffiths to Hannah. An Edward Griffiths widower age 28 married Hannah Roberts spinster age 30 on 27th July 1861 in Llanfwrog. Edward's father was John Griffiths Collier. My only doubt about this is that the first child appears to have been born in 1869 - maybe there are others that did not survive infancy besides Sam. Nellie
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Post by annedw on Mar 3, 2012 9:12:51 GMT
There are these births registered in Wrexham that may be Mary. Apr 1860 x 2 /Jul 1860 and quite a selection of female Griffiths that died after then and before Edwards marriage in July 1861.
1871 Lower Mount Brymbo. Edward T Griffiths 39 collier b Brymbo Hannah Griffiths 39 b Ruthin
Sarah J Griffiths 14 b Wrexham John Griffiths 3 b Wrexham
1861 RG9; Piece: 4277; Folio: 59; Page: 35 Mount, Brymbo. Sarah Griffiths head wid 60 b Derby Edward Griffiths son wid 28 collier b Brymbo. Joseph Griffiths son 19 collier b " Hariet Griffiths dau 6 b " Sarah Jane Griffiths dau 4 b Mary Griffiths dau 12 MO b " Robert Griffiths son 11 b "
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Post by nellie on Mar 3, 2012 16:06:25 GMT
Hi again, I have now found the missing children between 1863 and 1869 all born Mount, Brymbo so it confirms in my mind that Edward Griffiths married Hannah Roberts in 1861. Edward bapt. 14 Dec 1863 and buried 20 Nov 1869 John Samuel bapt. 12 Dec 1864 and buried 5 Apr 1865 Elizabeth bapt. 26 Jun 1866 and buried 22 Sep 1866 Elizabeth was the last baptism I could find so they could have changed churches for Samuel, John, Robert and Edward who were all born after 1866. Nellie
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