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Post by llosgi calch on Apr 25, 2011 19:52:46 GMT
Can we find any info on John Allington Hughes? No, not the solicitor - this chap was a stonemason.
This is an email received from Dilys Lloyd...
I have failed completely for 6 years to find my great grand-dad, I was told by my old uncle that he died from pneumonia,he was a stone-mason, and was repairing the church in Gwyddelwen near corwen. His name was John Allington hughes. My taid Thomas Ellis Hughes was born in Roxburgh st Wrexham in 1878, on the 1881 census my nain had remarried, uncle says he was burried in Brymbo or Coedpoeth. Please can someone help me.
Dilys sent a further email...
hello jas. Many many thanks for answering my e mail, the john allington hughes solicitor is not the one,my taid was a stone mason,I have the birth cert of the 3 sons, born 1875 1876 1878,and the fathers name on each of them, I am so fustrated,do you know who is in charge of the church in Brymbo and coedpoeth, maybe they could help. Diolch yn fawr iawn Dilys
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 9:27:41 GMT
Just recently I finally "found" my great uncle....John Allington Jones and thought what an unusual middle name to give a miner's son in the Coedpoeth/Minera area. How wrong was I! Back to the seach.... Hi Dilys Do you have the details from your Great Grandmother's second marriage certificate? Witnesse names etc may all prove useful With regard to local burials, there were no burials in Coedpoeth Parish Church until 1896. Brymbo parish registers are located at Wrexham archives and Denbigshire Record Office and a google search located this contact number for the Vicar 01978 756328. It is possible that your Great Grandfather was buried in one of the many non conformist chapels in the area. Thank you Eluned
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 10:57:21 GMT
Just located an online tree for this family so now we have some further information to work with 1881 RG11/5538/112/3 Tyddyn Eli, LlangwmHumphrey Ellis H mar 70 Independent Minister b.Llangwm Elizabeth Ellis wife 66 b.Llanfawr, Merionethshire Elizabeth Ellis daur Unm 29 b.Llangwm Mary Ellis daur Unm 27 Miliners shop asst b.Llangwm Thomas Ellis Unm son 23 shepherd & gen serv b.Llangwm Robert Jones Unm g.son 16 cowman b.Llangwm David Humphrey Ellis g.son 5 b.Wrexham Thomas Ellis Hughes g.son 2 b.Wrexham If this is the correct, we have a non conformist family Thomas Ellis Hughes' mother is Catherine Hughes nee Ellis who marries Alfred Wainwright in 1887. Cheshire Free BMD Catherine Hughes to Alfred Wainwright Chester Civil marriage 1887.
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 11:08:28 GMT
A google search shows a Humphrey Ellis, Llangwm, co. Denbigh, Congregational Minister. also archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CLWYD/2001-06/0992198364"Robert Ellis, Hendre Ddu, Bala b1770 helped Thomas Charles with his working in spreading the gospel in those parts. Robert Ellis's eldest brother, Rev Thomas Ellis bap 1765 was the founder of the Independent Chapel, Llangwm & Pentrellyncymer. Rev Thomas Ellis's youngest son, Rev Humphrey Ellis b 1811 was a minister for 56 yrs in Llangwm."
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 11:16:55 GMT
1881 RG11/5520/115/21 43 Windsor Terrace, Wrexham Catherine Hughes H Wid 37 grocer b.Llangwm Samuel Van Leer Hughes son 5 scholar b.Wrexham
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 11:41:10 GMT
1861 RG9/4309/34/4 Tyddyn Eli, Llangwm Humphrey Ellis 49 Independent Minister b.Llangwm Elizabeth Ellis 46 b.Llanfawr, Merionethshire Cathrine Ellis daur unm 17 William Jones Ellis 14 Jane Ellis 11 Elizabeth Ellis 9 Mary Ellis 7 Thomas Ellis 3 All children born Llangwm.
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Post by eluned on Apr 26, 2011 12:48:22 GMT
So where was she in 1871?
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Post by llosgi calch on Apr 26, 2011 21:10:09 GMT
I wonder where John Allington Hughes is on these earlier census? where does he hail from?
Dilys stated that on the 1881 census her nain had remarried so does this eliminate Catherine Hughes the grocer who is still noted as widow on 1881 census?
I note in 1900 Thomas Ellis Hughes married Magdalene Elizabeth Roberts b. Llangwm 1874 but cant find her parents either, and she is also found with her grandparents on earlier census - quite a coincidence?
Am I a little rusty at all this? lol
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Post by eluned on Apr 27, 2011 7:20:44 GMT
1881 RG11/5520/115/21 43 Windsor Terrace, WrexhamCatherine Hughes H Wid 37 grocer b.Llangwm Samuel Van Leer Hughes son 5 scholar b.Wrexham According to the tree on ancestry, (I know we have to be cautious!) this is Catherine with one of her children and she doesn't marry until 1887. I'm sure you can soon get back in the saddle Llosgi ;D
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Post by angharad on May 18, 2011 17:58:36 GMT
Dilys Lloyd is searching for John Allington Hughes - I haven't found him although I also searched - I wonder is Dilys Lloyd connected to Bryn Jones of Betws yn Rhos who emailed me to say he'd visited a Mrs Lloyd recently and he has also been asking questions on the Clwyd list. If so Bryn will have passed on my messages and information. I have received copies of the marriages of two of the sons in Chester. I am connected to Catherine Ellis through her mother - not a close contact but still in the family tree and I have quite a bit of information. If there is a possiblity that Dilys Lloyd could make contact with me by email I would be very pleased to share what I have with her.
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Post by annedw on May 19, 2011 7:45:26 GMT
Births, Deaths, Marriages and Obituaries . The Wrexham Advertiser. Saturday, November 28, 1874 This marriage is the soliciter, so is the one at Penybryn the one we are looking for. MARRIAGE OF MR. J. ALLINGTON HUGHES TO MISS SYKES, OF CROESHOWELL . The Wrexham Advertiser, Saturday, June 10, 1876 Attachments:
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Post by annedw on May 19, 2011 7:54:10 GMT
So which one was he Births Dec 1874 Hughes Arthur Edward Wrexham 11b 276 Hughes David Humphrey Wrexham 11b 309 Hughes Emanuel Wrexham 11b 285 Hughes Hugh James Wrexham 11b 290 Hughes Joseph Albert Wrexham 11b 285 Hughes Maurice Wrexham 11b 303 Hughes Richard Wrexham 11b 306 Hughes Thomas Wrexham 11b 308 Hughes Thomas Arthur Wrexham 11b 300
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Post by annedw on May 19, 2011 16:40:07 GMT
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Post by angharad on May 20, 2011 9:41:24 GMT
In answer to which of the Hughes boys born in 1874 was the son of Catherine , it was David Humphrey Hughes - the Humphrey after his maternal grandfather Rev. Humphrey Ellis As to who the parents of Magdalene wife of his brother Thomas Ellis Hughes, ( married 1899) she was the daughter of a Margaret Roberts, of Llangwm whose parents Evan and Magdalen (Modlen) Roberts ran the village shop. When she married she is recorded as Margaret Elizabeth Roberts and she was known locally as Maggie. Thomas remarried in 1919.
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Post by angharad on May 21, 2011 17:39:28 GMT
This is the latest in the search for John Allington Hughes. I searched the North Wales Directory CD for the above but drew a blank as to his exact name. From 1876 to 1886 there is a company Hughes & Owen described during those years as either builders, momumental masons, stonemasons and contractors with an address in Penybryn (no number) I also found them in 1883 under Quarry Owners - of Pentre Broughton Quarry. 14 Penybryn was recorded in 1876 as apartments and Hughes & Owen, monumental masons were situated further down that road that led from Bridge St to Ruabon Rd at the junction to Ruthin Rd (this copied from directory) In 1881 & 1883 Mrs Catherine Hughes lived at 43 Windsor Terrace Rhosddu Wrexham where she was a grocer / grocer & provisions dealer. In the next directory for 1886 she isn't recorded ( she remarried in 1887)
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Post by annedw on May 22, 2011 11:03:27 GMT
It seems the company of Messrs Hughes & Owen were around a little longer. Extracts are from Wrexham Advertiser. Note the connection with the church.
Saturday, September 15, 1877; Esclusham Church opened on the previous Wednesday, building had started in Sept 1876. The general contractors were Messrs Phennah and Davies of Rhostyllen , the sub contractors for the masonry being Messrs Hughes and Owen of Penybryn.
September 18, 1880 A tender of a total of ÂŁ197 for walling work on Regent Street, Egerton Street and Rhosddu Road was submitted by Hughes & Owen Penybryn.
March 26, 1881 Hughes and Owen , Builders of Penybryn are receiving donations for a `case of distress`
December 23, 1882 On Dec 18th at 2 Trevor Street Wrexham, Jane the wife of William Owen of the firm of Hughes and Owen died. July 21, 1883 Foundation stone of the new Weslyan Chapel in Egerton Street Wrexham was laid, it is being erected of Pentre Broughton Quarry stone. Hughes and Owen, Penybryn are the conracters.
March 24, 1888 Messrs Hughes & Owen Penybryn, are agents for Liverpool , Globe and London Insurance Company.
July 14, 1888 Messrs Hughes and Owen, Penybryn gave a tender for extensions to the Free Library
October 25, 1890 Messrs Hughes and Owen Penybryn were awarded the contract for the new Wesleyan Chapel at Brymbo
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Post by annedw on May 22, 2011 18:58:21 GMT
I have found a death in the Wrexham Advertiser.Saturday, December 18, 1880 HUGHES. Dec 9th at his residence 43 Windsor Terrace, Rhosddu, J A Hughes , grocer aged 30 . He left a will naming Catherine Hughes relict.
From the first post. john allington hughes solicitor is not the one,my taid was a stone mason,I have the birth cert of the 3 sons, born 1875 1876 1878, We could do with the names of all the sons
Have removed details of the other Catherine Hughes, too confusing.
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Post by eluned on May 22, 2011 21:22:08 GMT
1881 RG11/5520/115/21 43 Windsor Terrace, Wrexham[/b] Catherine Hughes H Wid 37 grocer b.Llangwm Samuel Van Leer Hughes son 5 scholar b.Wrexham1881 RG11/5538/112/3 Tyddyn Eli, Llangwm David Humphrey Ellis g.son 5 b.Wrexham Thomas Ellis Hughes g.son 2 b.WrexhamI was assuming that the sons were the 3 in bold above but I totally agree confirmation is required as it is so easy to make errors without all the facts
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Post by annedw on May 23, 2011 7:37:31 GMT
"In answer to which of the Hughes boys born in 1874 was the son of Catherine , it was David Humphrey Hughes "
"I have the birth cert of the 3 sons, born 1875 1876 1878, We could do with the names of all the sons."It`s very difficult trying to get this sorted, when the lady who made the original request has not joined in. And to completely knock it all sidways Could Catherine been telling little white lies about herself , she has lost 5 years off her age , and was previously a grocer. 1891 RG12; Piece: 4619; Folio 48; Page 5 2 Roxborough Place Wrexham. Alfred Wainwright 36 blacksmith b Hawarden Katherine Wainwright 42 RETIRED SCHOOL TEACHER b Llangwm . Evangeline Elizth Wainwright 3 b Gwersyllt David H Hughes 16 matchmaker b Wrexham Samuel V T Hughes 15 printer b Wrexham
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Post by eluned on May 23, 2011 9:46:06 GMT
;D ;D ;D
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Post by angharad on May 23, 2011 10:22:43 GMT
I have the marriage certs of David and Samuel - they both name their father as John Allington Hughes stonemason. There is a marriage on the BMD between Catherine Hughes & Alfred Wainwright in 1887 daughter born 1888. They lived in Saltney by 1901 and were there in 1911 - that is the address on those marriage certs too. This discussion has also been on going on the Clwyd rootsweb site - started by Bryn Jones whom I know but he hasn't taken part in the discussion since his original enquiry. I do understand that he had been in touch with Mrs Lloyd as he had discovered his connection to the Ellis family of Llangwm and his enquiry resulted from that visit. My connection is with the mother of Catherine Ellis and I received information about these possible marriages originally through someones else's family tree. I followed this up by my own research and failed to discover Catherine's marriage to a John Hughes. Catherine was born according to the information I received Feb 19, 1844. She was the eldest child and her parents married Nov 1841, the next child born 1846. Her father was an Independent minister. Also her son Thomas Ellis Hughes lived in Llangwm with his grandparents and married and died there. I can't find her however in the 1871 census and that makes it difficul , however I have found the John Hughes - plain John Hughes, no Allington - in the 1871 census - Bersham - can't read the road name properly -it reads Coedpoeth to Ffordd Glai. He's 21 son of David & Elizabeth Hughes, a stonemason like his father. His father is still there in business in 1881 and no John.
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Post by angharad on May 23, 2011 10:24:52 GMT
The will of J A Hughes - did he use the full name of John Allington Hughes in it do you know? I don't have access to the probate records to find out.
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Post by annedw on May 23, 2011 11:09:59 GMT
Just John Hughes Attachments:
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Post by annedw on May 23, 2011 11:10:50 GMT
J A Hughes in the paper. 1880 Attachments:
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Post by annedw on May 23, 2011 11:49:00 GMT
1891 and a Hughes family are at the grocers at 43 Crispin Lane. Attachments:
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Post by angharad on May 23, 2011 13:27:07 GMT
They can't be the same family. I presume they took over the shop when Catherine married. I wonder whether Mary was related to John Hughes- both from Coedpoeth although it doesn't get us any nearer the marriage of John! Interesting that there wasn't an Allington in his name in that will
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Post by eluned on May 24, 2011 8:17:37 GMT
Just recently I finally "found" my great uncle....John Allington Jones and thought what an unusual middle name to give a miner's son in the Coedpoeth/Minera area. How wrong was I! Back to the seach.... Do you have the details from your Great Grandmother's second marriage certificate? Witnesse names etc may all prove useful Thank you Eluned I'd be interested to know the details from this marriage cert if possible please. Does it mention her maiden name of Ellis or was that obtained from one of the childrens' birth cerifcates? Just call me nosey
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Post by eluned on May 24, 2011 10:22:52 GMT
It appears Catherine may have died in Saltney, Chester 1925.
Death reg Sep 1/4 1925 - Chester City Catherine Wainwright age 81 yrs
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Post by eluned on May 24, 2011 16:18:47 GMT
There is another marriage of a Catherine Ellis to a Henry Edwards Corwen Civil Dec 1870 I tried to locate this couple to enable us to rule it in (or out) as a possible first marriage for Catherine....but I can't find them in 1871 either Modified - This marriage has now been ruled out.
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Post by angharad on May 24, 2011 17:10:21 GMT
Catherine is buried with Alfred Wainwright at Capel y Groes (Independent/ congregational) Llangwm Er serchog gof am Catherine anwyl wraig Alfred Wainwright Saltney, Caer a merch hynaf y diweddar Parch Humphrey Ellis Llangwm yr hon a fu farw Medi 13, 1925 yn 81 flwydd oed Hyd toriad y wawr Hefyd ei gwr Alfred Wainwright a fu farw Gorffenaf 17, 1934 yn 79 mlwydd oed Da was da a ffyddlon - this tells uo she died Sept 13, 1925 age 81 and that she was the wife of Alfred W and the eldest daughter of the Rev. Humphrey Ellis. A W himself died July 17, 1934 at the age of 79. I too looked at that other marriage in corwen but couldn't find any site of them in the 1871 census or a suitable death for Henry before 1874 If I might add another interesting feature is that in the 1881 census in Llangwm David Humphrey Hughes and his brother Thomas Ellis Hughes are staying with their grandparents in Llangwm. There is another grandson the age 16 - Robert Jones, born Llangwm, but how he is a grandson I don't know - I think it's impossible for him to be their grandson by any other daughter. So I ask whether he is Catherine's son by a previous marriage - that would be about 1865 - Catherine would be 21 then. There is one marriage in Ruthin in 1862 but I can't see why her marriage would be registered anywhere other than Corwen. I wonder whether the newspaper Baner ac Amserau Cymru would contain a marriage anouncement - I know that there are many anouncements in it from Llangwm and my belief is that her father was the local correspondent.
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