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Post by ago on Nov 6, 2011 19:05:10 GMT
hello all,been working away again(redditch)i'm doing a research on a ww 2 crashed aircraft,on the night of 11/1/1943 about 8.45 an aircraft crashed at GWERNTO BACH between bwlchgwyn and rhydtalog,the aircraft was a WHITLEY LA766 with 8 crew members on board no survivors,R.I.P.names D R ROBERTS,(CANADIAN PILOT)BURIED WREXHAM,R.J. BINHAM(PILOT OFFICER)BURIED WREXHAM,W.H. STEWART BURIED WREXHAM,F/T R SMEARTON,BURIED WREXHAM,SGT.D.B.LISTER. H.T. STRACHAN, M.J.BUCKLE, C.E.AARON. i havent been to the site as yet post code LL115YR,the nearest building is caring companions uk ltd, a farmer told me that a woman of this area wrote a book on this crash,anyone knowof it,apparently a mr george edwards a taxi driver and pc will jones were the first on the scene,i've also been to commonwealth war graves can't find H T. STRACHAN and C E. AARON
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Post by pierce on Nov 7, 2011 21:53:53 GMT
Ago I have found a C.E. Aaron RAVR Service Number 1332230 Rank Sgt. Pilot age 20, died 11.1.1943 in the CWGC. This would appear to be one of the crew members. Whitleys as bombers were last used by RAF, on operational bombing missions in April 1942. Normal crew of 5. This would suggest that Whitley LA766 belonged to a OTU or conversion unit. This would account for the number of crew on board when it crashed
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Post by annedw on Nov 10, 2011 17:25:04 GMT
How sad, they were all so young. I think we should remember them today .
Buried in Ruabon Road Cemetery SMEATON ROBERT AGE 28 16/01/1943 GRAVE 09752 Son of John and Freda Smeaton, of Canons Park, Edgware, Middlesex
BINHAM RONALD JAMES AGE 20 16/01/1943 09510 Son of Harry and Florence May Binham, of Brynmill, Swansea.
STEWART WILLIAM H AGE 28 16/01/1943 09512 Son of James Moore Stewart and Annie Wright Stewart, of Nordegg, Alberta, Canada.
ROBERTS DAVID R ( Rozell) 1943 AGE 21 16/01/1943 09645 Son of Cecil Rozell Roberts and Barbara Clarke Roberts; husband of Margaret Roberts, of Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Deaths Mar 1943 STRACHAN Alex T ( Taylor) 19 Wrexham Son of Robert Alexander and Mary H. Strachan, of Edinburgh Cemetery: EDINBURGH (SEAFIELD) CREMATORIUM
Deaths Mar 1943 AARON Cyril E (Edgar) 20 Wrexham Son of Edgar and Eliza Aaron, of llford. Buried CITY OF LONDON CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM, MANOR PARK
Deaths Mar 1943 Lister David B ( Blackburn) 18 Wrexham Son of Sam Blackburn Lister and Jennie Lister, of Catford, London. GOLCAR BAPTIST CHAPELYARD Locality: Yorkshire
Deaths Mar 1943 Buckle Michael J ( John) 20 Wrexham Son of Edward and Florence Hilda Buckle, of York. YORK CEMETERY, Yorkshire
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Post by pierce on Nov 10, 2011 23:04:52 GMT
Ago Will this be of help
Limited details on aircraft crashed whether they be from training incidents or due to combat can be obtained from:
The Ministry of Defence
Air Historical Branch
3-5 Great Scotland Yard
London
SW1A 2H3
England
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Post by ago on Nov 11, 2011 17:06:59 GMT
hello,thank you all for your research,just arrived home working away redditch,yes it is an appropriate day to remember them and of course all who fought for our country,such a lot of information to study tonight again thank you all,by the way i saw a post on someone being a needle worker from redditch,redditch has or did have a needle manufacturing works maybe they have a redditch ancestry forum
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Post by pierce on Nov 11, 2011 23:17:09 GMT
Ago Have found a book "I Remember My Life In Bwlchgwyn 1939 - 1943 " by Gwenda Lewis. As far as I can see she came to the area just prior to the Second World War and the book is a reflection of life and events in the area up to 1943.
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Post by pierce on Nov 11, 2011 23:39:54 GMT
Ago I see you mention a George Edwards taxi driver, there is in the immediate area a coach company George Edwards and Son, Berwyn, Cae Lane, Bwlechgwyn Telephone number 01978 757281. I know this coach company, come up through Coedpoeth past 5 crosses then just before you enter Bwlechgwyn proper there is a right hand bend turn left and the garage is immediately on your right. I bet the George Edwards you mentioned was the founder of this company. Could be worth a phone call.
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Post by ago on Nov 12, 2011 21:00:08 GMT
good find pierce,where can i find it must be the book its supposed to have a photo of the aircraft,and george edwards of cource cant believe i never put 2 and 2 together he must have started out with his own taxi firm,i will get in touch will put some notes together before i call,thanks again pierce for that valuable info.keep up the good work.
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Post by pierce on Nov 12, 2011 23:01:20 GMT
Ago, I goggled books Bwlchgwyn and her name came up. But no publisher only book title. You could try a local publisher Bridge Books, 61 Park Avenue, Wrexham LL12 7AW. I have used them and have found them quite helpful.
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Post by hilary on Nov 13, 2011 13:35:02 GMT
Hi everyone. Gwenda;s book about Bwlchgwyn was never intended to be "published" - she wrote it for her family but it took off and in the end I think 200 were made! I have a copy of this and I have Gwenda's permission to extract the relevant bits. Because I've extracted most of the chapter it is too long to post here, but you can see it all on my blog at hilarysfamilyhistoryresearchpages.blogspot.com/I hope that the transcription will help you with your research. Hilary PS - George Edwards was the founder of the coach firm "George Edwards and Son" which still operates from Bwlchgwyn.
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Post by hilary on Nov 13, 2011 13:37:38 GMT
PS, I notice some differences in dates. I'll check these with Gwenda, but she was probably just trying to piece together her memories at the time, rather than writing a chronologically accurate account.
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Post by ago on Nov 13, 2011 19:48:39 GMT
hello all,thats the book good work hilary.(looks like your putting out fires all over the place)allthough i was told it was a whitley and gwenda's was a hudson but things get misconstrued over the years,thanks i will get a copy thank you hilary.
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Post by pierce on Nov 19, 2011 19:51:53 GMT
Ago Have looked up Raf (Bomber) Loses in OTUs and HCUs for January 10th and 11th January 1943. The records show no aircraft were lost on those dates regardless of type.
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Post by ago on Nov 19, 2011 20:31:36 GMT
pierce,i'm having the same problem been to this site aviation-safety.net/wikibase/ nothing,have sent details of accident awaiting reply have been told that an excavation took place in the late 80/s by w.a.r.g.and parts of the crash aircraft is in sleap aerodrome,going to work away on monday going to have a visit whene i get back on dec 1/st,the aircraft was a armstrong whitworth whitley LA766, 81 OTU
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Post by hilary on Nov 20, 2011 0:45:19 GMT
There are no photographs of the aircraft in Gwenda' s Book
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Post by pierce on Nov 20, 2011 20:54:23 GMT
Ago, aircraft recovery group at Sleap is only open on a Saturday. If you have not been before it is worth a visit, also you can get something to eat there as well in the control tower. I have a number of photographs of the exhibits there I will look for any reference to a whitley. 81 OTU was based at Sleap if I remember correctly, they also trained glider pilots for D Day there the towing aircraft being Whitleys.
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Post by pierce on Nov 20, 2011 21:23:00 GMT
Ago, Have looked through my photos from Sleap. They have on show part port wing, small section of fuselage and part of the bomb bay, however, I cannot recall when and where they were recovered from.
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Post by pierce on Nov 21, 2011 22:46:51 GMT
Ago Found a Flight Sgt. Smeaton RAFVR aged 28 service number 1310982 died 11.1.43 buried Wrexham, so that would appear to complete the crew, which consisted of 1. Pilot Officer Navigator, 2. Sgt Navigator, 3. Warrent Officer pilot, 4. Sgt W.Op/Air Gunner 5. Flight Sgt Air Gunner, 6. Sgt Bomb Aimer 7. Sgt Pilot and 8. Flight Sgt.
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Post by pierce on Nov 26, 2011 16:59:00 GMT
Ago, Visited Sleap to day Saturday 26th The parts of the Whitley bomber on display are from 3 different aircraft. Port wing is from Whitley EB384 crashed 25/26th May 1944 from 19 OTU, fuselage is from BD204 crashed 17/5/43 24 OTU and Bomb Bay BD232 26/9/42 24OTU. However, did discover having spoken to one of the ,members who confirmed that is was Whitley LA677 from 81 OTU, which crashed. The aircraft had taken off from Prees Heath (RAF Tilstock) earlier that day on a navigation excersie. He belived that there could still be parts of the aircradft in the crash area.
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Post by ago on Dec 1, 2011 20:02:36 GMT
hello pierce,good work saved me a trip,as for the crash area of gwernto bach wil have to get permition to lay a wreath next yearon 11/th jan(may they never be forgoten)that will be 69 years,see if i can take a photograph of gwernto,maybe the parts are on display in another aerodrome?r.a.f.shawbury may have info on avro anson n4966 found a ratchet adjuster? on trevor rocks.
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Post by pierce on Dec 1, 2011 20:33:56 GMT
Ago, Sleap is still worth the visit if you get the chance. Perhaps like other sites a cairn to mark the area.
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Post by damocon on Apr 18, 2012 13:03:41 GMT
Hi there - I stumbled across your forum today and I may be able to provide a bit more information
Many, many years ago I was gifted the medals and some personal effects of Robert Smeaton who died in this crash from his sister Nora. I did some research some years later and spoke with a gentleman who remembered the crash from when he was a boy.
I have more information at home but just now (from work) I can confirm that it was a Whitley operating out of Whitchurch Heath 81st OTU where Robert was based. The crew consisted of British and Canadians (maybe an Australian too from memory) on a training flight. I also have a copy of the log book recording the crash from what is now RAF Tilstock who were very helpful during my enquiries.
I'll update you with what I have at home as soon as I can.
Regards
Damien Kielty
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Post by damocon on Apr 18, 2012 18:42:38 GMT
My scanner is goosed so I'll take some stuff into work tomorrow and add again... My conversation was with Fred Edwards in January 2009. In 1943 he was 10 years old and was still living in the same house. The village policeman was lodging with them at the time. He remembered going to bed that night when the plane flew over, the noise was tremendous and it was really low over the house. He recalled that it was already on fire as it went down. His mother came up to say everything was OK but about 10 minutes later someone called the house looking for the policeman as the plane had crashed and was burning on the hillside. His Dad, a taxi driver by trade, drove down to the village picked up some of the men and the drove as close to the site as possible then walked the rest of the way. On the way up they found one member of the crew who's parachute had failed to open. He was Canadian, very bedly injured but was alive. They drove him to Wrexham but he later died of his injuries. The next day, Officers from RAF Sealand (Queensferry way) came round to see his Dad and got him into trouble for moving the crewman. They cleared the crash site very quickly but some of the local kids went and took bits of the perspex away. His house was about 1/2 mile from where the plane crashed and he could identify it to about 100 yards (in 2009) on the far side of the village on the far bank of a U-shaped gully. **** Having read Gwenda's account it's nice to see some items tallying - George Edwards getting into trouble for getting involved and also the local kids collecting perspex. I'm from Clydebank, Scotland and my Great Uncle used to collect things from the Blitz although it tended to be incediary bombs which he would take to a quite place and throw stones at till they went off... I think I'd have a lot in common with him ) **** The Operations Record Book of 81 OTU records: "11.01.1943; 20:50 - Whitley LA766 crashed into high ground near Wrexham. The Crew consisting of 5 pupils and screened pilot, navigator and wireless operator/air gunner were all killed" **** As noted above, most of the crew are buried in Wrexham Cemetary: Robert Smeaton - Sec D; Grave 9752 David Rozell Roberts - Sec D; Grave 9645 William Henry Stewart - Sec D; Grave 9512 Ronald James Binham - Sec D; Grave 9510 Alexander Taylor Strachan - Edinburgh, Seafield Crematorium Cyril Edgar Aaron - C. London Cemetery; Sec 201; Grave 110661 David Blackburn Lister - Goldcar Baptist Churchyard; Grave 436 Michael John Buckle - York Cemetery; Grave 11806D **** Robert Smeaton was Wireless Operator/Air Gunner on the flight, I presume by age he was the Teacher but I could be wrong. His sister Nora was his last surviving relative and she gifted me his medals - War Medal, 1939-45 Star, Air Gunner flash, a silk map of Germany and two photographs of Robert. I sadly lost contact with her and she has now passed away some years ago. I'll scan what I can tomorrow but I do hope this is of some help? Regards; Damien
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Post by annedw on Apr 19, 2012 10:02:54 GMT
I`m sure some of the plane enthusiasts on this site will be pleased to read this .
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Post by ago on Apr 21, 2012 7:49:03 GMT
hello all,just arrived home from working away,and welcome to our site damian,when i first started this topic you never in a million years believe that you would get so much information from members of this site,and i thank you all thank you very much,and then comes some info that in our eyes as a creme de la creme,that you don't see or read in books,we thank you damian for your time and valuable input,there is almost enough information to have a plaque made up in remembrance to these HEROES,a local said that mr edwards and colleagues on arriving at the crash site,(that i can only imaging as been an inferno,)said that the melting fuselage (that being aluminum)resembled large amount of birds flying in the night sky,again thank you Damian.
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Post by pierce on Apr 26, 2012 19:53:40 GMT
Ago Have a look at this aviation web site : www.ukairfields.org.uk/uploads/7/0/8/5/7085670/aviation_in_notts.pdf Since this area has a history of flight from the first flights from Wrexham, the training and wartime air fields and the large number of fatal air crashes in the surrounding areas. It woulkd be great if through those interested on this site if we could not set up something similar to remember those not only who served in this area but those who unfortunately came unexpectedly to earth and in most cases with fatal results
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Post by Hen Locsin on Apr 30, 2012 13:03:09 GMT
HI Ago, Pierce, Et al, interested in this site and the continuing saga of aircraft crashes, I viisted Wrexham ( Ruabon Rd) cemetery and took the attached pictures for the benefit of everyone who has shown an interest. Living in Minera at the time I was too young to remember ;D but Where exactly was Gwernto? I guess it was across the junction from the " Four Crosses " ( now the Moors.) My os map doesn't show it. Hope the pictures upload O.K Hen locsin
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Post by pierce on Apr 30, 2012 18:21:25 GMT
Hello Hen Locsin. Yes you are correct at the 4 Crosses take the Llanarmon Road, then take 2nd on your right (approximately half a mile from 4 Crosses) You should see a plantation on either side of the road. That is Gwernto Plantation, Just before you come out of the plantation you will see a track on your right hand side that leads to Gwernto Bach. Unfortuneately your photos do not appeare to have uploaded.
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Post by Hen Locsin on May 11, 2012 14:59:53 GMT
Hopefully after further deliberation, and help from Annette, the pictures all downsized should appear. 8-)Hen Locsin. Attachments:
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Post by Hen Locsin on May 11, 2012 15:03:45 GMT
Obviously only one at a time. Attachments:
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