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Post by annedw on May 11, 2007 16:44:13 GMT
In the Wern Chapel members registers I spotted William Abraham , labourer, Colorado, Elenor , his wife also of Colorado. They are entered as originally members of Wern, last members of Clear Creek, Colorado, residence New Brighton.
Received 10/8/1879 by letter by R Roberts. When recommended to America - 29/2/1880 .
Not sure what the last entries mean. Do the Abrahams belong to anyone.!!
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Post by Hen Locsin on May 11, 2007 23:40:40 GMT
Hi Annette, I have an ABRA Abrahams in my tree circa mid 1800's. A female! Hen Locsin
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Post by annedw on May 12, 2007 8:09:23 GMT
Entry 1336. Sarah Abraham, Vrondeg died Nov 7 1890 buried Nov 13 1890 aged 64. Wern Chapel, by Rev T E Thomas . Salem. Entry 40. Mary wife of William Abraham. Frondeg. buried Oct 23 1828. no age recorded. Sarah was the next to last to be buried at Wern. In June 1890 a child was baptised by Ellis Abraham of Frondeg. I`ll look for more, but 400 + takes some time and I`ll just add then to this post.
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Post by shedevil on May 14, 2007 17:56:31 GMT
Mary Abraham, Daughter of William (Miner) & Mary Abraham of Vrondeg Born 10/04/1811 Baptised on 28/04/1811 aged 18 days ;D
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Post by vivien on Jul 21, 2007 18:42:24 GMT
Entry 1336. Sarah Abraham, Vrondeg died Nov 7 1890 buried Nov 13 1890 aged 64. Wern Chapel, by Rev T E Thomas . Salem. Entry 40. Mary wife of William Abraham. Frondeg. buried Oct 23 1828. no age recorded. Sarah was the next to last to be buried at Wern. In June 1890 a child was baptised by Ellis Abraham of Frondeg. I`ll look for more, but 400 + takes some time and I`ll just add then to this post.
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Post by vivien on Jul 21, 2007 18:46:14 GMT
i have a barbara abraham born circa 1806 who married richard jones and had children betsey will barbara enoch elias jane richard and eliza born between c 1833 to 1851 in minera area - i can not find any trace of barbara's family - any ideas any one
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Post by Ruabonesque on Dec 14, 2009 19:27:40 GMT
Yes,The Abrahams Do Belong To Somebody.Me!! I'm The 2x Great Grandson of John Abram/Abraham(He Was Illiterate) My Great Grandfather told my Granddad that John's Father was a Farmer Called Ellis Though I Cannot Definitively Prove This. John Was Born 1832-34 and died in Ruabon in 1887. My Surname is By The Way Abraham.
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Post by eluned on Dec 14, 2009 21:25:47 GMT
Hi whitehouse7471, This looks like Ellis in 1851 Piece: 2503; Folio: 708; Page: 10; Living at Cernson Hall which is next entry to Mutton Hall Ellis Abram 68 farmer of 16 acres b Esclusham Above Jane wife 64 b Merioneth. I can`t make out the place, it`s transcribed as Wattay, but the W is a bit suspect. On the next page is another Ellis Abrams 30 farmer of 19 acres b Esclusham Above Catherine wife 43 b Merionethshire Elizabeth dau 7 b Esclusham A Eliza 6 " " Emily Jane dau 3 " " This is the family found previously by annedw, is this the correct one? And below a previous post by whitehouse7471 Hello Vivien,I myself am an Abraham and through the Clwyd FHS I was contacted by a person who recommended reading the Whiteis family bible. I duly did so and got further back in my ancestral research than I could possibly have hoped for. Ellis Abraham,My 3x Great grandfather was born in 1782 and died in 1856.His wife Jane also died in 1856. Ellis's father was Edward Abraham 1745-1802. Edwards father was John Abraham 1719-? This is where it starts getting a bit interesting. Johns father was Abraham Whitehouse 1696-? You might already be aware that at around this time it was a local tradition to give the surname of a child identical or in some cases similar to that of the fathers christian name.Anyway back to the tree. Abraham Whitehouse's father was Enoch Whitehouse born in Tipton,near Dudley,Staffordshire and baptised at St.Thomas OR St.Mary's church,Tipton.He was born in 1659 and died in the Wrexham area in 1727. He was the first one of my Grandpaternal ancestors to leave the West Midlands for NE Wales. I have no idea why he made that strange move with his family seeing as most employment was beginning to be found in the Industrial regions. Enoch's father was Thomas Whitehouse Jnr 1623-? Thomas Jnr's father was Thomas Whitehouse Snr 1599-? Thomas Snr's father was Edward Whitehouse,the grand family patriarch;and he was born in 1560 and died at the then colosall age of 93 in 1653 a Great-Grandfather. Hope that helps a wee bit!. I beleive you are refering to the Welsh patronymic naming system. www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/themes/society/family_03_welshnaming.shtmleluned
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Post by eluned on Dec 14, 2009 21:53:00 GMT
Have you checked the Welsh wills that are now online?
I notice there is Edward Abraham : will, 1817 Esclusham, Wrexham, Denbigh, Yeoman who mentions his youngest son Ellis.
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Post by eluned on Dec 15, 2009 13:00:28 GMT
Hi whitehouse7471, If you would like help to try and confirm John's parents, I'm sure there are several people willing to give it their best. More challenging the better I notice there are a couple of John Abraham's born c.1833-1837 in the area. eluned
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 14, 2011 20:45:45 GMT
I'm sorry it has taken me so long to respond Eluned. I would be eternally grateful for any and all assistance that you can give regarding this elusive link. All my Paternal Grandfather knew is what his father told him. He never met his Grandfather. John Abraham(1832-87) told his son,that his father was an Ellis Abraham. Like His son My Great Grandfather never met his Grandfather. I have seen Marriage Certificates of My Great Great Grandfather and given that he was Illiterate,He gives an X as a Signature,It's safe to assume he may not have been sure about his birthdate. I do know that he was a Lead Miner and died in Ruabon in 1887,and was also buried in the cemetery there. I have looked many times through BMD and Parish records and can find no feasible Paternal link between An Ellis Abraham and a John Abraham born say between 1830-35. His BMD death record states that he was 55 when he died but seeing as he provided Information in the census records this could quite easily be out by a few years. The closest and most logical link I have found is through the Wern Parish Records that state that William Abraham was the father of Twins Dinah(A girl) and John Abraham born 1832. If this is indeed the case why would he lie about the true identity of this his real Father. Common Sense and Instinct and other resources suggest to me that Ellis Abraham was William's older brother,and that possibly William was a bad lot,and that Ellis took on the responsibility of raising John. In any case here's a photo Of John Abraham(1832-87),his wife Elizabeth(nee Davies)(1833-1911) and Evan Abraham(the older brother 1870-1925) and my Great Grandfather Edward Albert Abraham(1875-1951) and their Half sister Polly. [a href=" "] [/a] Both Abraham brothers emigrated after their mother died; to first New York,and then finally settling In Winnipeg,Manitoba,Canada
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 14, 2011 22:52:27 GMT
Quite a Stunner My Great Great Grandmother wasn't she.!! ;D ;D ;D According to my Paternal Grandmother My Grandfather's Mother said she still felt traumatised by her some forty years later!!
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 14, 2011 23:01:51 GMT
I should have Mentioned this in My First Post. Sorry. Some of you guys might have noticed My Great Great Grandad's Mankey Hands. Apparently that was due to a severe Lead Mining Accident circa 1880 that Incapacitated him and Impoverished his family for the small remainder of his life. Poor Chap. Sometimes such things puts our current problems into perspective don't you think.
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Post by eluned on Aug 15, 2011 14:37:47 GMT
Hi Poor John , he must have struggled greatly due to his disability.
I have just been looking at the Wrexham Advertiser online and found an item which may be of interest which relates to an accident.
Saturday, October 03, 1868; pg. 5 Terrific Accident at the Green Pit, Ruabon. 10 Killed and 14 injured. Due to an escape of gas. 11am on Wednesday.
List of injured includes John Abraham,35yrs, Pentre, severley.
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Post by eluned on Aug 15, 2011 14:54:19 GMT
Apparently the Green Pit later became the Wynnstay and was worked from 1856 to 1927. The shafts where 414 yds deep. At its peak production it employed over 500 men.
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Post by eluned on Aug 15, 2011 17:19:38 GMT
John Abraham(1832-87) told his son,that his father was an Ellis Abraham. I have seen Marriage Certificates of My Great Great Grandfather and given that he was Illiterate,He gives an X as a Signature,It's safe to assume he may not have been sure about his birthdate. Hi whitehouse7471 Doesn't the marriage cert give his father's name? When and where did they marry? eluned
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 15, 2011 18:49:01 GMT
Hi Eluned,
My 2X Great Grandfather got married twice.
Once In 1856 and again about circa 1865 approx.
In Both instances he lists his Father as Ellis Abraham.
However there's no other evidence to support this so I Still think he's lying about this!!
Heaven only knows why!!!
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 15, 2011 18:56:28 GMT
Again Apologies for wasting space again. I should have mentioned this in My Last Post. You mention Eluned that John worked in The Green Pit Shaft. This Must have been John as he and his family lived in "The Green Pit" Cottages according to the 1871,and 1881 census.!!
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Post by eluned on Aug 15, 2011 19:21:46 GMT
Just a thought and to add some confusion but there is another John Abraham listed living in Coedpoeth in 1881. RG11; Piece: 5515; Folio: 110; Page: 51 Lodger, 48yrs (b.1833) marr, no occupation, born Wrexham paralysed ;D 1871 Minera John Abraham 38 leadminer b.Esclusham Above PalsyMariah wife 26 b.Northop 1861 Wern Catherine Abraham H Wid b.Glynceriog DEN John 28 unm son leadminer b.Wrexham William 15 son lead washer b." Edward 12 son lead washer b." This John also married 1865 a civil marriage in Wrexham to Maria Jones. It would be interesting to know who the father of this John is. I do think your John Abraham is the most likely gent to have had the accident at Green Pit but we may never know for definite.
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Post by eluned on Aug 15, 2011 22:05:55 GMT
Wern baptisms John s/o William Abraham and Catherine Bowen 1832 This is the baptism that you thought was yours 1851 Esclusham Above William Abram H mar 46 leadminer b.Esclusham Above Catherine wife 44 b.Llangollen John 18 ag lab Sarah 15 Mary 8 William 5 Edward 2 children all born Esclusham Above
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 16, 2011 1:25:37 GMT
Thanks ever so much Eluned.!!
It's beginning to look more and more like John lied about Ellis being his Dad doesn't it.!!
I'll Provide you with some more details about John.
His Death is listed in The BMD's as being in Ruabon in late 1887.
His age is given as 55.
He was buried in in Ruabon Cemetery.
I've seen The Wern Cemetery details and I think John's Father,William(Not Ellis!!) was born in 1803 and died in 1860.
Information Provided to me by a certain Dale Whiteis,Perhaps a very Distant Cousin suggests that this William Abraham was the son of an earlier John Abraham born in 1766.
That John Abraham was according to the provided information;was the Youngest son of the first John Abraham born in 1719.
His Eldest surviving son was an Edward Abraham born in 1745.
This Edward Abraham apparently had a son called Ellis who was born in 1782 and according to the Wern Records died in 1856.
Prior to the John Abraham born in 1719 there were no Abraham's in Minera.
His father was an Abraham Whitehouse born in 1696.
And his father was an Enoch Whitehouse born in 1659.
According to the "Whiteis Family Bible" Enoch moved to Denbighshire in 1694 from Tipton,(near Dudley),Staffordshire.
I doubt any of us will ever know why he made that choice.
I'm so proud that he did though.
Denbighshire is such an Unsung gem of an area and is so much more attractive than Dudley ever could be or perhaps ever was!!
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Post by eluned on Aug 16, 2011 6:57:01 GMT
Wern baptisms John s/o William Abraham and Catherine Bowen 1832 This is the baptism that you thought was yours, twin with Dianna 1851 Esclusham Above William Abram H mar 46 leadminer b.Esclusham Above Catherine wife 44 b.Llangollen John 18 ag lab Sarah 15 Mary 8 William 5 Edward 2 children all born Esclusham Above Sorry did I confuse you? I wasn't agreeing with you I was ruling him out I think this John is the one below Just a thought and to add some confusion but there is another John Abraham listed living in Coedpoeth in 1881. RG11; Piece: 5515; Folio: 110; Page: 51 Lodger, 48yrs (b.1833) marr, no occupation, born Wrexham paralysed ;D 1871 Minera John Abraham 38 leadminer b.Esclusham Above PalsyMariah wife 26 b.Northop 1861 Wern Catherine Abraham H Wid b.Glynceriog DEN John 28 unm son leadminer b.Wrexham William 15 son lead washer b." Edward 12 son lead washer b." So you do need to find a baptism of a John to Ellis as stated on his marriage certificates.
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Post by eluned on Aug 16, 2011 7:14:51 GMT
The John above was born in Esclusham Above and baptised in Wern Chapel. Your John Abraham consistantly states in the census that he was born in Ruabon, between 1834-1837. I beleive this is him, unhelpfully, without his parents. 1851 HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 214; Page: 3; William Rowland 41 farmer Ann Rowland 41 Mary Rowland 7 Ann Jones 23 Evan Davies 35 John Abraham servant 17 b.Ruabon Have you searched the Ruabon area for baptisms? What was John's father Ellis' occupation as listed on the marriage certs please?
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Post by eluned on Aug 17, 2011 18:55:15 GMT
Hi whitehouse7471 I noticed that you'd been back on the forum but hadn't posted, perhaps you needed time to recover from the shock ;D Anyway I asked about Ellis' job because there is more than one Ellis Abraham so hopefully the occupation listed on the marriage certs.....please let there be one .....may help to narrow the search. There is an Ellis mentioned here This looks like Ellis in 1851 Piece: 2503; Folio: 708; Page: 10; Living at Cernson Hall which is next entry to Mutton Hall Ellis Abram 68 farmer of 16 acres b Esclusham Above Jane wife 64 b Merioneth. " " He is probably the gent you mention as being buried in Wern Chapel in 1856 as shown below. Buried in Wern Chapel graveyard ABRAHAM Ellis Esclusham Above 73 d 27/08/1856 b 30/08/1856Farmer ABRAHAM Jane Esclusham Above 70 d 03/11/1856 b 08/11/1856 widow of Ellis ABRAHAM The late Ellis Abraham This Ellis and Jane also baptised children at Wern but not a John. If you check out Jane's age she would have been born abt.1787 so in her late 40s at the time of John's birth so looking unlikely.
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Post by eluned on Aug 17, 2011 18:56:15 GMT
There is another 1851 Rhosllannerchrugog, Ruabon HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 241; Page: 12 Ellis Abraham Head marr 42 ag lab Ellin wife 48 Mary daur 12 Evan son 8 All born Ruabon Death reg Wrexham Ellen (Helen) Abram Jun 1/4 1851 Ruabon 1861 Nant Mill, Esclusham Above RG9; Piece: 4285; Folio: 68; Page: 2 Thomas Jones (and family)farmer and miller Ellis Abraham servant wid 52 farm bailiff b.WrexhamDeath reg Wrexham Ellis Abram Sep 1/4 1866 60yrs Buried in Wern Chapel graveyard ABRAHAM Ellis Nant Mill Esclusham Above 60 d 18/08/1866 b 21/08/1866
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 18, 2011 1:35:11 GMT
Yep,Your absolutely Right Eluned.
I did Pop online last night.
It wasn't really shock.
More Deflation and Dissapointment If Anything.
This has been a brick wall in my ancestral research for years and I just jumped the gun I suppose.
I still think though that it's vaguely possible that John might have lied about his Father's true identity for whatever reason.
Mind you that's probably wishful thinking in a warped sort of way.
When you hit a Brick wall as large as this it's just so frustrating.
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Post by eluned on Aug 18, 2011 17:49:11 GMT
Have you searched the Ruabon area for baptisms? What was John's father Ellis' occupation as listed on the marriage certs please?
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Post by Ruabonesque on Aug 18, 2011 21:46:31 GMT
Right Eluned.!! I've Just Found both of John's Marriage Certificates. (1)-The First,on January 24th 1857 was to a certain Jane Evans.He Gives his age as 23 or 25. It's very hard to tell which. He Gives his Profession as a Labourer. He Gives the name of his father as Ellis and the Certificate states that he was also a Labourer. John gives the name of his residence as PentreChristionydd???. This Marriage was in the Presence of an Ann Evans and Edward Abraham. Jane Evans gives her age as 19 and her "Condition" as Spinster. She states that her Father's name was John Evans. She gives her address as Mountain. (2)-John's Second marriage was to an Elizabeth Williams on December 30th 1865.[/u][/i][/b] John Gives his age as 32. Again he Gives his profession as a Labourer. Again he Lists his father as Ellis Abraham and again Lists him as a Labourer. Again he gives his residence as PentreChristionydd???. This time the marriage was in the Presence of an Edward Davies and a Mary Ann Valantine. John gives His "Condition" as a Widower and Elizabeth gives her Condition as a Widow. Elizabeth states that her Father's name was Humphrey Davies. She lists her age as 26. She gives her address as the same as John's. She Lists her Father's profession as that of a Labourer. Both Marriages occurred at Ruabon Parish Church. I Hope that Helps Some!!
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Post by eluned on Aug 19, 2011 20:28:44 GMT
Hi Pentre Cristionydd was in the township of Dininlle Ucha alias Cristionydd Fechan and therefore in the parish of Rhosllanerchrugog after 1844. www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Ruabon/index.htmlShame the occupation of father Ellis wasn't more conclusive but in my experience people tended to exaggerate their status rather than minimise it so I think we can rule out Ellis 1783-1856, farmer.
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Post by eluned on Aug 19, 2011 20:49:05 GMT
Posting details of your John in the census 1871 Pentrechristionydd, Dynhunlle and Ucha RG10; Piece: 5653; Folio: 63; Page: 11 John Abraham H mar 35 coliery watchman b.RuabonElizabeth 33 Sarah Ann 13 Margaret 10 Evan 4mth 1861 Moreton Above RG9; Piece: 4283; Folio: 13; Page: 45 John Abraham H 27 coal miner b.RuabonJane 23 Jane 1 1851 Ruabon HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 214; Page: 3; William Rowland 41 farmer Ann Rowland 41 Mary Rowland 7 Ann Jones 23 Evan Davies 35 John Abraham servant 17 b.Ruabon
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