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Post by jojo on Dec 26, 2009 18:35:46 GMT
Hi jojo Thanks for that. As far as I know, Richard and Sarah Francis had three children: Thomas, Margaret and Jane. Thomas was my great grandfather. I believe his sister, Margaret, married Thomas Lloyd in 1888. I'm not sure if Jane married or if so to whom. Deb 1881 Census, Smelt Row, Coedpoeth RG11; Piece: 5515; Folio: 112; Page: 55/56 Sarah Francis, 39, head, Coal Miners widow, RhesyCae Flintshire Thomas Francis, 18, coal miner, Denbs. Coedpoeth Miriam Francis, 9 Sarah A Francis, 7 John Francis, 5 Richard Francis, 3 By 1891 Sarah Francis nee Jones has remarried to John Jones (Dec Q 1885) Old Post Office, Church Street, Bersham RG12; Piece: 4614; Folio 92; Page 30/31 John Jones, 47, head, M, Coal Miner, Flints Holywell Sarah Jones, 50, wife, Flints Rhesycae Edward Jones, 23, coal miner, Denbs. Rhos John Jones, 20, coal miner, Denbs. Rhos Miriam Francis, 19 (transcribed as Jones) Denbs. Coedpoeth Sarah Ann Francis, 18 (transcribed as Jones) Denbs. Coedpoeth John Francis, 15 (transcribed as Jones) Coal Miner, Denbs. Coedpoeth Richard Francis, 13, Coal Miner, Denbs. Coedpoeth Samuel Jones, 5, scholar, Denbs. Southsea HTH Heather PS In 1901 the remnants of this family have been mistranscribed as belonging to another next door household - that of David & Elizabeth Davies but they are in a separate dwelling - the page is very faint. RG13; Piece: 5219; Folio: 46; Page: 33 John Francis, 26, (son) coal miner hewer, Denbs. Coedpoeth Miriam Francis, 29, (dau) Denbs Coedpoeth Richard Francis, 25, (son) Denbs. Coedpoeth Samuel Jones, 15, (son) Denbs. Coedpoeth Thomas Jones, 25 (cousin) Halkyn Flints.
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Dec 26, 2009 23:07:50 GMT
Sorry jojo but I still don't understand how John Richard Francis is connected to John Owen Williams. I really would like to know because it will be another chapter in my family history.
Also, are you related to this Francis family? Deb
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Post by jojo on Dec 27, 2009 8:16:05 GMT
Hi Deb No connection so far. At one time I thought there was a connection to "your" Jesse Roberts so researched both but eventually established that your Jesse Roberts was not one and the same as the one I was tracing who married Miriam Carrington in 1870. (Miriam had a sister Naomi who married Jonathan Roberts brother of "my"Jesse - very confusing . Your Jesse Roberts, father of Sarah E Roberts, states on censuses that he was born in Llanarmon yn Ial/Eryrys whereas Miriam's Jesse was born in Minera, however his mother Dorothy was from Llanarmon so the families may connect further back or just coincidence - Jesse was a fairly unusual christian name at that time? I wonder if we are discussing two different Thomas Francis on this thread. Your Thomas Francis was the son of Richard Francis & Sarah Jones. Is that correct? There were three children born to Richard & Sarah listed on the 1871 census, Thomas, Jane & Margaret. Richard Francis died age 42 in Mar Q 1878 - correct? There were four more children born between 1871 and 1881 Miriam, Sarah Ann, John & Richard. They are listed with their mother Sarah Francis widow and brother Thomas on the 1881 census referenced above. The younger children are listed on the following page image after Sarah & Thomas. If you do not have ancestry you can check the information on Family Search for free. The widow Sarah Francis remarried to John Jones in Mar Q 1885. She had one more child Samuel Jones c1885/6 - see 1891 census referenced above. BTW the Thomas Jones (c1876) listed in 1901 appears to be the son of Sarah's brother Thomas JONES (c1843) HTH Heather
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Dec 27, 2009 16:18:08 GMT
Hi, I think I'm going to confuse the situation even more. I think John Richard Francis was brother to Sarah Ann Francis married to Levi Williams. As mentioned in Levi's Obituary (Wxm Leader, July 29th 1938, page 4) Mr & Mrs John Francis, Coedpoeth (brother-in-law and sister-in-law), Mrs Richard Francis, Clo-caenog, and Miss M. Francis, Southsea, (sisters-in-law) had been present at his funeral. I will have to obtain Levi and Sarah's marriage certificate to confirm her father's name. Will keep you posted on the outcome. As for Levi and Sarah's children, they were as follows: Richard Francis c1893 John Owen c1896 Margaret c? Arthur born 24-7-1910 Dora born July 1908 buried 3-1-1910 Coedpoeth Cemetery Agnes born 1902 buried 13-1-1903 Coedpoeth Cemetery Annie born 7-2-1904 The above two children are buried with Levi and Sarah in Section A, Plot 160. Unfortunately no headstone.
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Post by jojo on Dec 28, 2009 1:40:26 GMT
As mentioned in Levi's Obituary (Wxm Leader, July 29th 1938, page 4) Mr & Mrs John Francis, Coedpoeth (brother-in-law and sister-in-law), Mrs Richard Francis, Clo-caenog, and Miss M. Francis, Southsea, (sisters-in-law) had been present at his funeral. Thanks for posting Levi's obituary details Sharon. Those names all fit for Sarah Ann Francis' siblings. There is a death of a Richard Francis age 55 registered in Ruthin District in 1933 which would fit with his widow from Clocaenog attending Levi's funeral in 1938. I also found a death for Miriam Francis age 70 registered Wrexham in 1941 so possibly she never married. Obtaining Levi & Sarah Ann's marriage cert for her father's name will hopefully help to clarify who these Francis siblings belonged to John Richard Francis next of kin was his mother Sarah Elizabeth Francis of 5 Southsea Road, nr Wrexham. He was 20 years 7 months when he signed up Jan 14, 1916. I believe his father Thomas Francis passed away in 1907.
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Dec 28, 2009 3:06:32 GMT
Hi there This is what I have so far on my Francis family.
My ggg grandfather - John Francis b1812 Nerquis married Jane Watkin b 1813 Llangynog. They had children: Richard b1837 - my great great grandfather John b1832 James b1839 Anne b1843 Jane b1841
Richard Francis b 1837 Shropshire married Sarah Jones b 1842 Rhes Y Cae. They had children: Thomas b 1863 - my great grandfather Margaret b 1867 Jane b 1865
I didn't know anything about the other children born between 1871 and 1881 Miriam, Sarah Ann, John & Richard. I also didn't know that Sarah had remarried.
Thomas Francis b 1863 Coedpoeth married Sarah Roberts b 1867 Coedpoeth. The had children: Thomas Emlyn b 1901 - my grandfather John R b 1895 - died at war 4th Aug 1917 Jesse b 1896 Llewellyn b 1891 Trevor b 1905 Leah b 1894 Ceridwen b 1907 ?Sally b 1898
Thomas E Francis b 1901 Wrexham married Annie Davies b 1902 Bwlchgwyn. They had children: Joan b 1929 Brenda b 1931 - my mum David b 1933
Hopefully this might help to confirm things. Deb
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Post by tominera on Dec 29, 2009 15:02:47 GMT
Hi---You will find details of Miriam on LW Img No9550. buried in same grave as John & Sarah Jones (bur det available if required) Here are some Wesleyan Coedpoeth Circuit Baptisms for the children of Thomas & Sarah Elizabeth Francis 6 Bridge St. Southsea. Llewelyn b 16 7 1891 bapt. 13 8 1891 Leah b 14 1 1894 bapt. 11 2 1894 Thomas Emlyn b 21 9 1901 bapt 27 11 1901 Naomi Dilys b 12 9 1902 bapt. 28 9 1902 Trevor b 29 4 1905 bapt. 25 9 1905 Ceriwen b 18 4 1907 bapt. 28 5 1907---I have found some dob are not always perfect but grateful they were ever recorded. Just a couple of Marr. in Jerusalem Chapel Wxm Thomas Emlyn Francis (Southsea) m Annie Davies (Wrexham) 24 Sept 1928 Henry Thomas Salisbury (Wrexham) m Ceridwen Francis (Wrexham) 15 2 1941 Tom
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Post by tominera on Dec 29, 2009 21:49:02 GMT
Just a wee bit more--Bapt. for John Richard Francis Coedpoeth Wes. Circ. 21 6 1895 born 11 5 1895---Parents Thomas & Sarah-Weston Terrace, Southsea. And a marr. In Jerusalem Chapel Wrexham 21 8 1899 David Owen son of Cadwaladr Jones, Brymbo to Sarah Hughes daughter of John Hughes Pregethwr, Clocaenog and a sister to Parch T. Hughes, Bryndwyfon---Tom
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Post by jojo on Dec 29, 2009 21:55:12 GMT
Thank you for all the info Tom. For some reason I can't find LW Img 9550. Can you confirm the number as perhaps I'm looking in the wrong file.
Heather
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Dec 29, 2009 23:39:58 GMT
Thank you Tom Deb
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Post by tominera on Dec 30, 2009 13:02:45 GMT
Hope this helps and I can confirm it is 9550 Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Dec 30, 2009 13:23:32 GMT
These may help and there is a headstone but in very poor cond. LW img No 9557 FRANCES Thomas aged 45y d 25 5 1907 bur 28 5 1907 FRANCES Sarah Elizabeth aged 52y d 16 3 1919 bur 20 3 1919 FRANCES Sarah Elizabeth 9 Mths old d 29 8 1899 bur 2 9 1899 FRANCES Naomi Dilys 2Yrs 8 Mths d 16 5 1905 bur 20 5 1905 All in Plot 733 Coedpoeth Cemetery---Tom Should Resolve Sally?
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Post by tominera on Dec 30, 2009 19:10:36 GMT
Hi, Yet another bapt. Jesse b 12 11 1896 bapt 14 12 1896 Parents Thomas & Sarah Elizabeth Francis Bridge St Southsea---Tom
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Post by tudorstyle2003 on Dec 30, 2009 21:33:41 GMT
Thank you so much Tom. It definately resolves the ?Sally problem. Deb
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Post by mbriscoe on Aug 10, 2010 22:53:44 GMT
The links to the CWGC site, you might find photographs of some of the casualties' war graves on the War Grave Photographic Project site including overseas graves. www.twgpp.org/Also you can search on the hut-six by keyword, this often turns up casualties not recorded on the local war memorial. MB
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Post by ago on Dec 27, 2010 21:27:03 GMT
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Post by ago on Dec 31, 2010 0:44:48 GMT
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Post by margaret on Feb 7, 2012 17:18:50 GMT
CWGC has made some changes to its site and many of the original links no longer seem to be working. I have just had to re-edit all the Web Links that I had attached to my A*y trees. The good news is that the Certificates, in the newer format, can be saved to PC as .pdf files. Regards - Margaret
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Post by ago on Feb 26, 2012 17:30:20 GMT
www.australianwargraves.org/home/w1/i2/ just came across this site while doing a research john williams minera,go to search the archives put in minera,also 3 from wrexham,handy if you don't know the names.or service numbers.
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Post by pierce on Aug 21, 2012 21:12:18 GMT
Another line of research. militery casualties.Go to Commonwealth War Graves Commission web site and go to Find Cemetery. Choose UK. and then Denbighshire this will give you every church yard in Denbighshire in which there is a militery grave from either 1st or 2nd World Wars. Gives name, rank date of death and plot location
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