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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 8:44:53 GMT
I am searching for information on John Evans the miner that survived for 12 days when the pit flooded in 1819.
He was born around 1793 possibly 1792 and died on 27 April 1865 aged 73 years old. He his buried at Adwy Chapel. He was married to Elizabeth and a book named The Colliers of Denbighshire mentions his daughter Mary Jane Rowlands (although the 1851 Census Record suggest this may have been his niece)
The story of John Evans has been passed down the generations of my family claiming him to be my ggg grandfather.
I am hoping that there may be some local history records that could tell me more about his family. I am particularly interested to find out details about his family (I would like to know if he had any brothers) and who his children were. I have conflicting information about his children. Some articles tell me he had two children by 1819. My Aunt seems to think he had around 10 children in all.
In effect I need to know what records may be available to me around the time of his birth 1792 upto around 1840.
This may be a stab in the dark, but I am working on the assumption that as he was a local legend then maybe there are some hards facts about him somewhere?
Jan
P.S I am from the Oldham area in Lancashire.
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Post by shedevil on Jun 7, 2007 10:38:52 GMT
A translation of the original story that was written in welsh by the Great Great Grandson of John Evans Namely a Thomas John Whitley was published by Robert Edwards in one of his Books Coedpoeth as it was. Part of the translation which i cannot copy because of copyright laws states that John Evans was the father of 2 and his wifes name was Elizabeth
It is stated that the original transcription was written by a Thomas Evans of Adwy Coedpoeth but it is not clear whether Thomas Evans was a relative of John Evans
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Post by bromaelor on Jun 7, 2007 17:08:04 GMT
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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 17:14:20 GMT
Thank you for the information. Part of the translation is on a Website I have visited. www.bbc.co.uk/wales/northeast/sites/wrexham/pages/john_evans.shtmlI went back and doubled checked it after I got your post. I notice there is a contact telephone number for Robert Evans. So I will give him a call tomorow see if he knows anymore. I knew John had two children around the time of his accident, but a family member led me to believe that he went on to have more children and had a large family of around 10! How true this is I have no idea.
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Post by shedevil on Jun 7, 2007 17:31:51 GMT
There do not seem to be any records available for the Adwy Chapel that would confirm his baptism or marriage and his childrens details
There are also other problems in that the 1841 & 1861 census returns for the area are missing, but I am sure that someone who visits these boards may have more local knowledge of John and his descendents who may still live in the area
Keeping my finges crossed something turns up for you
Tracey
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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 17:52:52 GMT
My fingers are crossed too. I have lots of 'irons in the fire' at the moment and am awaiting the marriage certificate and birth certificate of Mary Jane Rowlands, so I'm hoping this may tell me something.
Jan
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Post by llosgi calch on Jun 7, 2007 18:08:56 GMT
A spelling mistake on the BBC website. John Evans was entombed at the Pentre Fron pit. Other links... www.gtj.org.uk/en/item1/1648“A traumatic incident occurred in 1819. A hundred years ago there were many coal pits on the go in Pentre Fron. One of them was flooded (in 1819) and John Evans, grandfather of William Evans, Salem Road, was trapped inside for fourteen days. He kept alive by eating candles and sipping the drips of water which fell from the roof. Great efforts were made to reach him and as he had become so weak that he was unable to signal through tapping. His friends believed he had died, and they brought a coffin to the pit-head to receive the body. This fact was related in a Welsh verse, no doubt by some local poet. which says:” “Shroud and coffin lie awaiting when they bring him to the top.”
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Post by shedevil on Jun 7, 2007 18:59:48 GMT
Traced back from 1901 Census for a Whitley Family in Coedpoeth 1901 The only Whitley Family living in the area was that of Joshua Whitley born c 1878 & Sarah Catharine Whitley Born C 1877 Going back to the 1891 Census there was a Sarah Catherine Evans aged 14 Living at Tabor Hill The Family comprises of the following John Evans Head M 47 Coalminer Denbigh, Coedpoeth Mary Evans Wife M 42 Flints,Dyserth John Williams Evans Son S 19 Miner Denbigh, Coedpoeth William Edward Evans Son S 18 Miner Denbigh, Coedpoeth Annie Evans Daur S 17 Denbigh, Coedpoeth Sarah Catherine Evans Daur S 14 Denbigh, Coedpoeth Caroline Elizabeth Evans Daur 9 Scholar Denbigh, Coedpoeth Thomas Owen Evans Son 7 Scholar Denbigh, Coedpoeth Mary Evans Daur 4 Denbigh, Coedpoeth George Evans Son 2 Denbigh, Coedpoeth Meredith Price Evans Son 1 Denbigh, Coedpoeth The 1851 Census finds John Evans born 1844 Coedpoeth Living with his parents at the Smelting House, Coepoeth the family there are John Evans Head M 35 Collier Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Sarah Evans Wife M 34 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Mary Anne Evans Daur U 15 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Sarah Evans Daur U 12 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Elizabeth Evans Daur U 10 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham John Evans Son U 7 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham William Evans Son U 5 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Amy Evans Daur U 1 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham John Davies Lodger U 26 Collier Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Jonathan Davies Lodger U 20 Collier Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham The head of this household born in 1816 could be John Evans the son of John Evans who was trapped in a pit for 13 days during 1819 Something worth thinking about but would need to be verified through other sources of information Hope it is of some use Tracey P.S. Llosgi Why havent we done a Mystery Ancestor on John Evans before now
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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 19:46:46 GMT
RE: Spelling Mistake I'm not sure it is a spelling mistake. I received this email yesterday explaining it. Pentrefram (or Pentrefron) Colliery was in the ancient parish of Wrexham and situated near Talwrn (Coedpoeth). Mr. A. N. Palmer says :- “Just behind the Talwrn Colliery is an old farmhouse called the Hafod ; close to it was another farm formerly called Pentrefram but now Pentrefron.” Mr. T. G. Griffiths, of Gwylfa, Coedpoeth, says :- “The ten pits between Plas Mostyn and Caradog Road (Coedpoeth) formed the Pentrefron Colliery which ceased working in 1819 when the pits were drowned out.” Pentrefron was also called the Old Talwrn Pit. Mr. J. R. Burton, of Minera, was interested in this Colliery. Mr. Tom Carrington, of Coedpoeth, says his father gave him one reason why the name of Pentrefram rather than Pentrefron was used. For years the winding was done by a hand whimsey, but an engine on sale at Liverpool Docks was bought by Mr. J. R. Burton and brought to the Colliery for winding. It was “The Brampton” and afterwards the pit came to be called Pentre Fram.
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Post by shedevil on Jun 7, 2007 21:01:31 GMT
Now hmm im sure ive seen that exact transcription word for word before Was it in Coedpoeth as It was may i wonder ?? He He He
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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 21:20:02 GMT
Not sure it was emailed to me but I could try and find out.
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Post by netty on Jun 7, 2007 21:35:31 GMT
I've just been to my mothers and she has shown me a photocopy of John Evans gravestone. It says he died on April 27th 1865 but I cannot make his age out it looks like 75 but could be 73 or 77. The date and age Elizabeth are too difficult to read. It looks like she died in the 1860's some time aged 82. This information would be really useful as I found a John Evans and his wife Elizabeth on the 1851 Census. However, John aged 56 and Elizabeth 66. The picture of the gravestone was taken from a booklet. I only have pages 34 to 37. On Page 34 is the engraving of John Evans and a photograph of his grave. On Page 35 the title reads A Story of John Evans Translation and Research by T. J. Whitely but the story is cut short as I only have to page 37.
My mum seems to think she picked up this booklet from Wrexham Library. She is planning a trip to her sisters next month, so she will says she will try and locate another copy.
Jan
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Post by shedevil on Jun 8, 2007 9:23:34 GMT
If you send me your email address in a private message i will photocopy the extract for you It is taken from Coedpoeth As It Was
click on my name on the left and then choose send private message
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Post by bromaelor on Jun 8, 2007 11:02:52 GMT
Here is the full extract from "The Collieries of Denbighshire" by G .G. Lerry, first published in 1946, with a second edition in 1968:
Pentrefram (or Pentrefron) Colliery
Pentrefram (or Pentrefron) Colliery was in the ancient parish of Wrexham and situated near Talwrn (Coedpoeth). Mr. A. N. Palmer says :- “Just behind the Talwrn Colliery is an old farmhouse called the Hafod ; close to it was another farm formerly called Pentrefram but now Pentrefron.” Mr. T. G. Griffiths, of Gwylfa, Coedpoeth, says :- “The ten pits between Plas Mostyn and Caradog Road (Coedpoeth) formed the Pentrefron Colliery which ceased working in 1819 when the pits were drowned out.” The flooding of Pentrefram occurred in September, 1819, when out of 23 men, three were caught in the flood. Two men - Edward Salisbury, of Harwood, and John Taylor, of Adwy, were drowned. After twelve days and nights, John Evans, who was buried without food or light 120 yards below the surface of the earth, came out alive (September 27th, 1819). This event was celebrated in Welsh verse
Ingian Soni pwll y wimsi Windio dwr o ddyfnder mawr Arch ac amdo barod iddo Erbyn windio John i’r lan.
John Evans’s daughter (Mrs. Mary Jane Rowlands) known in the district as “Mrs. Rowlands, the nurse,” used to refer to her father as the man who lived in the pit 13 days on drops of water which dripped from a beam overhead, and eating candles. She also stated that people knelt in prayer by the roadside as her father was being carried home from the pit. A full account of the flooding of Pentrefron, written by Thomas Evans, Adwy, appeared in Golenad Gwynedd for November, 1819. Pentrefron was also called the Old Talwrn Pit. Mr. J. R. Burton, of Minera, was interested in this Colliery. Mr. Tom Carrington, of Coedpoeth, says his father gave him one reason why the name of Pentrefram rather than Pentrefron was used. For years the winding was done by a hand whimsey, but an engine on sale at Liverpool Docks was bought by Mr. J. R. Burton and brought to the Colliery for winding. It was “The Brampton” and afterwards the pit came to be called Pentre Fram.
In the book "Hanes Rhosllannerchrugog" by J Rhosydd Williams, published for the National Eisteddod in Rhos in 1945, Williams suggests that 'Soni' is probably a translation of "Sawney" and further searching produced the definition -
"Sawney: To lower full tubs down an inclined road or face using a rope or chain wrapped around a prop to act as a brake."
So my translation of the poem would be:
Ingian Soni pwll y wimsi - The Sawney engine of the whimsey pit Windio dwr o ddyfnder mawr - Winding water from a great depth Arch ac amdo barod iddo - A coffin and a shroud prepared for him Erbyn windio John i'r lan - Ready for winding John up.
There is another short comment about the accident in "The North Wales Coalfield: A Collection of pictures - Volume 1" by Ithel Kelly.
"One of the best known incidents during the early days of the mines in the Wrexham area occurred at Pentrefron Colliery in Talwrn, Coedpoeth. On 27 September 1819, the mine was flooded and, out of 19 men working underground, three were trapped by the water. After eight days of anxious waiting and searching, the bodies of two of the miners, Edward Salisbury of Harwood and John Taylor of Adwy, were recovered and all hope was abandoned of finding the third man, John Evans, still alive although efforts to recover his body continued and a coffin was prepared for his burial. After twelve days, two miners working at the far end of the pit heard a voice calling to them. They cleared some of the rubble and found Evans, sitting in the darkness some 120 yards below the surface. Despite being weak he got up without assistance and walked to safety. He later reported that he had managed to survive by climbing above the level of the flood, eating his candles and drinking the water which dripped onto him from above. Rather than waste the coffin which had been prepared for him, John Evans took it home where he used it as a cupboard."
If we are looking for spelling errors, shouldn't "Harwood" in both articles be "Harwd" in Brymbo?
Ian
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Post by bromaelor on Jun 8, 2007 11:37:31 GMT
There are also other problems in that the 1841 & 1861 census returns for the area are missing, ... I don't think there is any problem with the 1861 census in either Wrexham or Ruabon parishes. The only local 'missing' censuses on the FHC list are for Bryn Eglwys and a few townships of Llangollen. Ian
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Post by Rhiannon on Jun 8, 2007 12:01:40 GMT
This Gentleman and his family has nothing to do with my search but I have enjoyed reading this article, so interesting, thank you to all for sharing this news.
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Post by shedevil on Jun 8, 2007 14:58:22 GMT
Bromaelor You may notice that I was referring to the 1841 & 1861 Census returns for Minera which are not available If you do know of their existence please point me in the right direction as there is quite a lot of information I would like to know about my Owens side Tracey
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Post by shedevil on Jun 8, 2007 15:58:58 GMT
Jan
From the picture of the Gravestone it states that Elizabeth Evans died 14th May 1868 aged 82 years
John Evans died 27th April 1865 aged 73 years
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Post by bromaelor on Jun 8, 2007 16:37:02 GMT
Bromaelor You may notice that I was referring to the 1841 & 1861 Census returns for Minera which are not available If you do know of their existence please point me in the right direction as there is quite a lot of information I would like to know about my Owens side Tracey By "Wrexham Parish" and "Ruabon Parish" I was referring to the 'ancient' parishes. When talking about the census I should however have called them Registration Districts and not parishes. I have the complete printout of all of the census piece numbers for all Denbighshire registration districts and townships as supplied by the Family Records Centre in Islington. It gives: 1861 Minera - RG9/4286 Folios 73-87 Ancestry have: Wrexham - District 13 - Minera (RG9/4286 Folio 76 to Folio 83) Wrexham - District 14 - Minera (RG9/4286 Folio 85 to Folio 87) and I've just checked and all of the pages are there. If any pages are missing they are not defined as "Minera". Which are you unable to find? As to the 1841 census, Ruabon is entirely missing whereas Wrexham is "officially" missing but the census for "Wrexham Town" is available on CD from the Clwyd Family History Society. Ian
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Post by netty on Jun 9, 2007 10:26:17 GMT
Thanks for the dates Tracey.
Here's where I am at.
My tree is traced back to Mary Jane Rowlands b 1844 (awaiting birth certificate) married to Thomas 1866 (awaiting marriaged certificate).
The family notes left by my Great Aunt who was born in 1903 were comprehensive. All the details in these notes correspond exactly with the Census Records (1871 - 1901) for the Rowlands Family living at Peter Evans Row, Bersham.
My Great Aunt claims to be the great granddaughter of John Evans but the notes she left only go back to Mary Jane Rowlands.
I have found two references that refer to John Evans as having a daughter named Mary Jane Rowlands.
I have also found a reference that Mary Jane Rowlands daughter of John Evans married Thomas Rowlands a bellringer (I am assuming that this would not be a full time occupation and therefore this occupation may not be listed on the census return)
However as Mary Jane was b in 1844 this would put Elizabeth aged 58 and John at 52 when she was born to them !!!!!!!
My theory is that she was actually his niece but brought up by John and Elizabeth as there daughther and therefore referred to him as her father and maybe exaggerated this due to his local legend status.
The only records I can find to support this theory are on 1851 Census Records living in Nr Machine, Parish Minera.
John Evans Head Aged 56 Collier Elizabeth Evans Wife Aged 63 (Although this looks like 66 on the return) Mary Anne Niece Aged 15 Mary Jane Niece Aged 7 Sarah Niece Aged 4
Could this be my family?
I have a few more leads, and some records which I am waiting for, which I hope will support this but no 'hard facts' that link my Mary Jane Rowlands to John Evans.
Maybe the certificate may give new leads?
Jan
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Post by shedevil on Jun 9, 2007 11:53:17 GMT
The 1851 Census finds John Evans born 1844 Coedpoeth Living with his parents at the Smelting House, Coepoeth the family there are John Evans Head M 35 Collier Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Sarah Evans Wife M 34 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Mary Anne Evans Daur U 15 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Sarah Evans Daur U 12 Denbighshire, Parish of Bersham Im wondering if this is the same family and that the girls that are listed with John & Elizabeth were infact his grand daughters It was quite common for mistakes to be made in the early census returns, I myself having had the priveledge to be an ennumerator on the 2001 census know how information can get mixed up you would be surprised how many people cant remember dates of birth One of my family is down as a servant in one census returns when in fact she should of been listed as Daughter Im sure something will turn up soon from someone who has more knowledge of the family and I know its frustrating when the information isnt available If the information was available for John and Elizabeth on the 1861 census and the 1841 census It would make life a little easier I would be interested to take a look at this John Evans born c 1816 (as above) I do have a gut feeling he is related in which way im not sure he could be a son or a nephew but it seems that he married sarah before 1837 so no records would be to hand. Tracey
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Post by netty on Jun 9, 2007 12:42:20 GMT
Thank you Tracey, you never know!
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Post by jowright on Jun 11, 2007 22:27:01 GMT
Dear all, I too am researching a branch of this Evans family at present. I have a letter written to me in Feb of this year from a member of the Roberts family still living in the Coedpoeth area. He states that on his nain Roberts side there was a rather famous 'nurse Rowlands' - district midwife and that another famous relative was John Evans ( of Pentre Vron Pit fame). I have worked back only as far as1820. Here is what I have gleaned so far: Edward Roberts b 1903 was the son of Seth Roberts b 1877 Bwlchgwyn who married Emily Rowlands b 1880 Coedpoeth. Emily Rowlands had siblings John F 1876 Mary A 188? Caroline1886 and Annie 1887 ( all Coedpoeth as far as I know.) Emily Rowlands father was Thomas Rowlands b 1842 Bagillt who married a Mary I/J b 1844 from Minera. Thomas had a brother Evan/Evram/Jeram? b 1852 Bagillt who married a Mary b 1859 from Ruabon. As far as I can tell Thomas and Evan/ Evram..'s mother was Elizabeth Rowlands b 1820 Denbs In the 1871 census there is a George meredith Roberts( brother to the Seth who married Emily Rowlands) aged 4 from Brymbo father Edward Roberts 41 from Mold. Later, George Meredith was to marry Sarah Ann Rowlands in 1895 bmd wm/043/6. I hope this is of interest to some of you.... perhaps you can tell me how John Evans fits to this? More importantly -( for me) can anyone tell me whether Smelt Cottages ( as they were ) in Brymbo would be considered the same as Smelt Cottages in Coedpoeth? I need to find the name of the occupants of 4 Smelt Cottages Brymbo between 1840 -43. I have a little more info on this topic if anyone is interested. Jo Wright
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Post by netty on Jun 12, 2007 16:38:34 GMT
Jo Wright
The Rowlands family you mention abover are the same family I have been researching.
I have details of the children and grandchildren if you are interested.
I am very interested in the Roberts family living in Coedpoeth. They are almost certainly distant relatives perhaps 2nd cousins of my mother.
The famous 'nurse rowlands' you mention is also referred to (in the book The Colliers of Denbighshire) as Mary Jane Rowlands "known as the the nurse" daughter of John Evans.
At present I need to establish more information about this Mary Jane Rowlands to see where she fits into my Rowlands family?
Can you help any further
Jan
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Post by jowright on Jun 15, 2007 13:46:52 GMT
Hello Jan, I would love any details you have on this family. I am principally collecting info on the Roberts family and am completely stuck at the moment! Mary Jane and Thomas Rowlands 'daughter Emily married Seth Roberts from Bwlchgwyn. I have their marriage cert and it states that Seth Roberts' father was Edward ( deceased ) and that he was an engine driver in life. The marriage was 25th Feb 1899 and was at the parish church Wrexham. He was 21, she was 21 ( apparently) Neither Mrs Jones from the registry office nor I can find a Seth Roberts born in 1877/8 who has the father Edward. However, I think it's the one born 1874 - he fits. The family related to these people are living at Smelt farm brymbo. They wrote to me trying to help with my family research. If it is easier please feel free to use my normal email - jowright22@hotmail.com Thanks Jo Wright
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Post by jowright on Jun 15, 2007 14:15:12 GMT
Hello Jan, I would love any details you have on this family. I am principally collecting info on the Roberts family and am completely stuck at the moment! Mary Jane and Thomas Rowlands 'daughter Emily married Seth Roberts from Bwlchgwyn. I have their marriage cert and it states that Seth Roberts' father was Edward ( deceased ) and that he was an engine driver in life. The marriage was 25th Feb 1899 and was at the parish church Wrexham. He was 21, she was 21 ( apparently) Neither Mrs Jones from the registry office nor I can find a Seth Roberts born in 1877/8 who has the father Edward. However, I think it's the one born 1874 - he fits. The family related to these people are living at Smelt farm brymbo. They wrote to me trying to help with my family research. If it is easier please feel free to use my normal email - jowright22@hotmail.com Thanks Jo Wright
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Post by netty on Jun 15, 2007 16:02:01 GMT
Ancestors of John Evans.
I'm fairly sure Emily was born in 1880. The year of her birth ties in with a registry office entry and her ages on the census returns. This therefore indicates that the age entered on the Marriage Certificate was incorrect and therefore could be wrong for Seth as well.
I have found a Seth Roberts on the 1881 Census Return born 1874.
Name: Seth Roberts Age: 7 Estimated birth year: abt 1874 Relation: Son Father's name: Edward Mother's name: Anne Gender: Male Where born: Brymbo ((Minera)), Denbighshire, Wales Civil parish: Brymbo County/Island: Denbighshire Country: Wales Street address: Maes Maelor
Occupation: Scholar Household Members: Anne Roberts 45 Edward Roberts 50 Edward Roberts 1 Enoch Roberts 3 George M. Roberts 14 Hannah Roberts 10 Naomi Roberts 5 Richard Roberts 9 Sarah H. Roberts 12 Seth Roberts 7 Thomas Roberts 17
Could this be your Seth - Does it tie in with your 1871 details.
We know Seth had a brother George Meredith b 1867? who you confirmed on the 1871 Census Record. I can also tell you he had another brother called Edward b 1880c who shows up on the 1901 Census Record with Sarah Ann and George Meredith.
All of the above fits and it shows Seths age at 7 born 1874.
My only question mark is the George M
You say found him on the 1871 census record age 4 He shows up on the 1881 aged 14 On the 1901 when he his marred to Sarah Ann he his aged 51 and should actually be 34? Do you have a marriage certificate by any chance?
Jan
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Post by shedevil on Jun 15, 2007 22:17:42 GMT
Jan I did send you an image via email of John Evans grave hope you received it
Tracey
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Post by netty on Jun 15, 2007 23:29:42 GMT
Sorry Tracy I missed it. Our business mail comes into the same box and my hubby has a habit of opening the emails. Thank you for the copy you have sent me is much clearer.
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Post by netty on Jun 26, 2007 22:55:35 GMT
I am still following several leads to confirm my families ancestry. I have located an ancestor of John Evans in New Zealand and I am eagerly waiting for this lady to pass more information my way. I'm also still waiting for marriage and birth certificates for Mary Jane Rowlands. The waiting game is so frustrating!
I did find a thread of information on the coedpoeth community website which said Johns Evans grandson was William Evans of Salem Road. I cant seem trace him but would imagine he born around 1840 - 1850. If anyone is able to pass any information on I would much appreciate it.
Jan
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