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Post by eluned on Jul 31, 2009 8:17:11 GMT
Hi frankie66 and welcome to the site Have you been able to locate her on any census returns? Do you have her marriage certificate and if so does it give her father's name and occupation please? Do you have this birth certificate? Birth registered Wrexham Fanny Will thingy Dec 1872 REF.WM/040/71 eluned Modified. Oooops! The swear box strikes again! The spelling is different from the one you gave and unfortunatly I can't post it on here so hope you are able to have a guess at what I wrote. It wasn't spelt with an "X" but ended in a "K". Here is the link to the North Wales BMD www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/bmd_welcome.html
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Post by frankie66 on Jul 31, 2009 9:27:01 GMT
correct name should be FANNY WILthingy. SORRY ABOUT THAT
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Post by eluned on Jul 31, 2009 9:38:34 GMT
Marriage Dec 1/4 1890 Liverpool Fanny Wilthingy to Ernest Arthur Jacobs
Is this them in 1891? Kirkdale, Liverpool RG12/2962, f.74, pg.4 Arthur Jacobs mar 18 dock lab b.Liverpool Fanny " 19 b.Wrexham Charles " 2mo b.Liverpool
1901 Kirkdale RG13/3466, f.102, pg.35 Ernest A. Jacobs H mar 28 dock lab. b.Liverpool Fanny " wife 28 b.Wrexham Charles " son 10 b.Liverpool William " " 7 b." Elizabeth " daur 5 b." Ernest A. " son 2 b." Elizabeth Canning m.in.law wid 60 b.Wrexham
Hopefully this info will help us to move backwards!
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Post by eluned on Jul 31, 2009 9:58:14 GMT
Hi Frank66, Just wondering why you deleted the first post? If you can provide some further info including if you found them in 1911, it will all help in the search
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Post by frankie66 on Jul 31, 2009 12:38:15 GMT
hi thanks for that info, i do hav that info on the 1901 census i was trying to find any info on my great great gran , fanny wilthingy .from wrexham and mother inlaw, .i allso hav them on the 1911 census living in liverpool.
ps , the reason i deleted the first message , i was trying to correct the name but it would not let me. don,t no why . Frankie.
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Post by eluned on Jul 31, 2009 12:41:54 GMT
Have you got the wedding certificate and could you share the details please? If you haven't already purchased it, it may be a good idea to do so to ensure we find the correct line for you. Also ditto for the birth cert. Is Elizabeth Canning still with family in 1911 and does she still give Wrexham as her place of birth. eluned
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Post by frankie66 on Jul 31, 2009 15:32:12 GMT
hi thanks for the quick reply , i will try and get the marriage certificate. and birth cert, Frank
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Post by eluned on Jul 31, 2009 20:09:37 GMT
Hi I wonder if this is her family 6 families at this address 1871 RG10/5657,f.113, Pg.20 12 Mount St, Wrexham RegisWilliam Wilthingy lodger mar 36 butcher b.Wrexham Elizabeth " " mar 32 b." William " " 5mo b." Fanny (G)leeson " 13 dom serv b." I can't find them in 1881 except for.. District Wrexham Union WorkhouseRG11/5520, f.134, Pg.11 William Wilthingy 11 scholar b.Wrexham There is also this death reg. Wrexham William Willthingy 39yrs d.Jun 1/4 1878
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Post by eluned on Aug 1, 2009 17:50:08 GMT
Seems to be either Will c**k or Wil c**k but no "S" ;D ;D ;D
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Post by frankie66 on Aug 3, 2009 5:40:57 GMT
THAT SECOND VERSION IS CORRECT WITH JUST ONE ,L, ENDING WITH ,CK. I BET IT CREATED A FEW JOKES WITH A NAME LIKE THAT. FRANK
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Post by annedw on Aug 3, 2009 10:03:51 GMT
Wrexham births index. WILLC-OC-K Fanny Wrexham Wrexham C.B. WM/040/71 1872
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Post by frankie66 on Aug 4, 2009 9:15:04 GMT
hi , just to say this is a fantastic site cannot believe how helpfull some people are. Frank
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Post by annedw on Aug 4, 2009 12:30:16 GMT
I looked for Fanny`s baptism in Wrexham Pr`s and she isn`t there, I went as far as 1874 just to make sure. There were at least two Willco-ck families though as I found the following baptisms. This one looks like the family Eluned has in 1871 16 Oct 1870 William s/o William and Elizabeth Willco-ck, Butcher, Brook St. Aug 23 1872 John William s/o Thomas and Elizabeth Willco-ck, Innkeeper , Town Hill, Wrexham. And these are the family above. This Elizabeth was NOT born Wrexham . I thing you can forget about these. 4 Caradoc Terrace Wrexham All children b Wrexham Thomas Willco-ck 54 innkeeper b Wrexham Elizabeth Willco-ck wife 42 born Redditch. Worcs. Florence Willco-ck 11 dau John Wm. Willco-ck 8 son Arthur Phillip Willco-ck 5 son Bessie Willtco-ck 3 dau Minnie Eleanor Willco-ck dau Emma Wright 19 servant b Overton. I know this doesn`t help with the search for Fanny, and now we have two Elizabeth Willco-cks I think the best way to find her is to get the marriage certificate and see who her father was, and then her birth certificate to find her mother. Or as she is proving so difficult to find just go right to the Birth. If you ask, then usually the register office will check first if her father is named. When you find this, then maybe we can help you take it back from there. Sorry I couldn`t help more
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Post by annedw on Aug 4, 2009 14:22:07 GMT
Fanny Gleeson from 1871. living with the Willco-ck family I think she is Frances Clayson born 1858. d/o George and Harriet Clayson.
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Post by eluned on Aug 5, 2009 17:49:19 GMT
Fanny Gleeeson from 1871. living with the Willco-ck family I think she is Frances Clayson born 1858. d/o George and Harriet Clayson. It was a tricky one ;D ;D ;D Just had another look and she's transcribed as Fanny Clerson There is also an open tree on ancestry that gives Fanny Wilco-ck as bap. 1875 St Giles to William and Elizabeth.
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Post by annedw on Aug 5, 2009 22:12:45 GMT
CLAYSON Frances Wrexham WM/019/38 1858 I didn`t look as far as 1875 for Fanny Willco-ck. Odd that William and Elizabeth baptised a son William soon after he was born, but waited three years to baptise Fanny. Presuming they are the same William / Elizabeth. Births Dec 1870 Willco-ck William Wrexham 11b 313 Oh well, these things are sent to try us. This thingythingy thingy thingy is driving me nuts. WOW I am allowed to say NUTS.
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Post by frankie66 on Aug 6, 2009 6:15:18 GMT
HI thanks to every one that tried to help . as regards to the name my poor gran , must hav created a few smile with that name. frank
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Post by eluned on Aug 6, 2009 11:30:29 GMT
My gran was called Fanny and Mum says that she used to feel so embarrassed, as a young girl, when people would shout "Hello Fanny" across the street! Mum used to say "Why can't they call you Mrs .....!" ;D ;D ;D Glad I wasn't called after my Gran
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Post by eluned on Aug 6, 2009 17:57:36 GMT
Is Elizabeth Canning still with family in 1911 and does she still give Wrexham as her place of birth. eluned
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Post by annedw on Aug 12, 2009 14:01:54 GMT
St Giles Prs Wrexham, Baptism. 8th October 1875 At the side is an entry , 1872, presumably when she was born. Fanny Willc-ock d/of William and Elizabeth. Abode - Beast market, William was a butcher.
So this looks like the same family Eluned found, with a Fanny as a servant. but where is Fanny born 1872 in 1881. If her father has died, and her brother William is in the workhouse, then where is her mother Eizabeth as well.
Another one for Willc-ock. 18th August 1875. Arthur Phillip, s/o Thomas and Eizabeth, 3 Tuns Inn. Wrexham Thomas was an innkeeper.
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Post by annedw on Aug 12, 2009 19:49:06 GMT
I hope I`m not going to make things confusing but I think I found the marriage of William and Elizabeth. It was a Civil marriage which means you would have to get the certificate for the details. Marriages Jun 1866 All on same page. Davies Ithel Wrexham 11b 597 FOSTER Elizabeth Wrexham 11b 597 ROBERTS Ann Wrexham 11b 597 Wilco-ck William Wrexham 11b 597
Now I looked for Elizabeth Foster in 1861, and found one married to William Henry Foster. Luckily they are living with her parents William and Eleanor Lloyd. Elizabeth is 22 b Wrexham. They are living in 3 Well St, Wrexham Abbott. William Henry was aged 29 and born in Wellington, Salop. They were married in a Civil marriage at Wrexham in Mar qtr 1861
There`s no other Elizabeth Foster around. I found a death of William Foster Mar qtr 1865 Wrexham.
If this is the correct Elizabeth then she would be a widow on her marriage to William Willco-ck in 1866.
You really need to check all this out to make certain, especially the marriage in 1866.
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Post by annedw on Aug 13, 2009 7:31:30 GMT
A little more. again all this really needs to be checked out.
1891 I think this could be Fanny`s brother living at 20 Beast Market.Wrexham. William Willco-ck aged 20 and is described as nephew. He is living with Richard Jones aged 60 b Wrexham and his wife Martha aged 50 b Wrexham
In 1851 HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 547; Page: 25 There is a Matha Lloyd age 10, sister Eliz aged 11 living with their parents William and Ellen Lloyd at Bryn Y Fynnon , Wrexham
In 1859 a Richard Jones married either Martha Lloyd or Mary Brereton at St Giles Wrexham.
I would take a chance and say that the 1851 record is our Elizabeth
Lloyd - Foster - Willco-ck, so how does she end up to be a Canning .
Bryn Y Fynnon= Fynnon is Welsh for well, and is in the same area as Well St would have been.
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Post by frankie66 on Aug 14, 2009 12:53:06 GMT
Hi , well i don,t no what to say but it is all very confusing, what i need to do is get her marriage cert, but i must say you guys never give up , so once again thank you . FRANK
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Post by annedw on Aug 25, 2009 9:25:48 GMT
While you are getting the MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE, I thought I`d look at William. There were 2 born about the right time. And 1 living in Chester that I`m doubtful about, he is a bit too old.
1851 HO107; Piece: 2172; Folio: 47; Page: 27 Crook Street Chester. Margaret Willco-ck widow head 40 mangling woman b Llanwrst William son 16. sawyer.b Wrexham c 1835 plus 3 sisters
===================================== William Wilco-ck. Birth: Mar 1839 - Wrexham Name: William Willco-ck Birth: abt 1839 Death: Jun 1878 - Wrexham
William Wilco-ck Birth: Jun 1838 - Wrexham
===================================== 1851 HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 848; Page: 10; 1851 Wrexham Union Workhouse. William Wilcok 12 pauper b Wrexham c 1839.
1851 HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 587; Page: 14; Thomas Wilco-ck 47 joiner b Marchwiel Anne wife 49 b Wrexham William son 11 b Wrexham c 1838 plus another 7 children.
So = no clues with William in the workhouse, lets hope the marriage certificate solves it all. Give us the details when it arrives and then we can do some more for you.
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Post by frankm on Sept 27, 2017 7:11:24 GMT
Looking through my information I came across a reference to this thread. I realised that although I still don't have all the details I could probably answer most if not all the questions raised so I'll make a start. The first point is that Fanny was a member of this family. minerahistory.proboards.com/thread/1323/marchweil-sontley-family-willco-ckA condensed version of her family tree :- Thomas Willco-ck - Elizabeth Jones (1764-1850) | (Abt 1771-1814) | Edward Willco-ck - Sarah Ellis (1810-1847) | (1815-1897) | William Willco-ck - Elizabeth Lloyd (1838-1878) | (Abt 1839-19--) | Fanny Willco-ck - Ernest Arthur Jacobs I don't know if frankie66 obtained the marriage certificate but I do have copy of the parish record. See attached. We know she was from Wrexham and that William & Elizabeth had a daughter Fanny born in 1872. The parish record gives her father's name as William Willco-ck and he was a butcher. A note on the spelling of the surname :- The surname is sometimes spelt with one l but seems to have eventually become double ll. Great grandfather Thomas used Wilco-ck but his brother John used Willco-ck. Attachments:
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Post by frankm on Sept 28, 2017 7:55:27 GMT
The majority of the information found in this thread is relevant to Fanny & her family. Can't link this one as yet:-
"1851 HO107; Piece: 2172; Folio: 47; Page: 27 Crook Street Chester. Margaret Willco-ck widow head 40 mangling woman b Llanwrst William son 16. sawyer.b Wrexham c 1835 plus 3 sisters"
or "Fanny (G)leeson " 13 dom serv b." from the 1851 census."
Everone else fits into the full family tree.
There are two Williams mentioned as being in the workhouse, they are father and son.
"1851 HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 848; Page: 10; 1851 Wrexham Union Workhouse. William Wilcok 12 pauper b Wrexham c 1839."
This is William (1838-1878), Fanny's father. His father, Edward was killed in 1847 when a brick fell on his head during the building of the New Market Hall. By the time of the 1851 census the remaining four members of the family were scattered. Mother Sarah now a servant in the house of George Haden. William in the workhouse. His sister Elizabeth (1840-1923) with Edward's brother John (1794-1875) & sister Mary (1791-1964) living in Wellington, Shropshire. The youngest member of the family, Thomas (1845-1893), is with Edward's sister Elizabeth (1807-1885) now Mrs Abraham Morris.
"1881 census District Wrexham Union Workhouse RG11/5520, f.134, Pg.11 William Wilthingy 11 scholar b.Wrexham"
This is Fanny's brother, have not been able to trace Fanny or her mother in 1881. History repeating, William Snr died in 1878 and the family is scattered. In 1901 cenus Elizabeth has become Elizabeth Canning, widow but apart from that no other data.
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Post by annedw on Oct 1, 2017 18:00:08 GMT
I had another look, it`s very difficult to work out. There are some options you might want to try especially the will of William in 1878/79. It might shed some light. there seems to be a connection with Jones`, but everyone has one here in Wales. ! GRO Index births Wrexham . mmn Lloyd. WILLthingy, ALICE mmn LLOYD 1867 J Quarter in WREXHAM Deaths Mar 1870 Willthingy Alice 2 Wrexham WILLthingy, WILLIAM mmn LLOYD 1870 D Quarter in WREXHAM I think you need to take a look at this one. WILLthingy, FANNY mmn LLOYD 1872 D Quarter in WREXHAM Will. William Wilthingy , died 20 July 1878. Plas Noble . AGED 39 born c 1839 Will proved 24 August 1879 by Richard Jones, Oakley House in this parish, nephew and Samuel Dale farmer of Deeside Holt . Why did the will take so long to prove ? newspapers.library.wales/view/4592152/4592156/35/Died 17 Sept 1885 aged 73. Bc 1812. Elizabeth Wilthingy 73 widow of William Willthingy, Plas Noble died at Gatewen . She is much older than William was, but could be another family member, grandmother perhaps. Also she would be about 60 when Fanny was born. And there is this one ? newspapers.library.wales/view/4591210/4591215/26/William Willthingy aged 45 late of Wrexham , died 17 Sept 1890 (bc 1845) Miles Street, Liverpool Fanny Wilthingy married at All Saints, Liverpool 27 Nov 1890 . Witnesses were Ellen Jones and illegible. Abode of Fanny and Ernest Arthur Jacobs was the same for both, Rose Place. 1891 Ernest A Jacobs 28 Fanny Jacobs 28 b Wrexham Charles Jacobs 10 William Jacobs 7 Elizabeth Jacobs 5 Ernest A Jacobs 2 Elizabeth Canning mother in law. 60 Elizabeth married William Henry Foster in 1860. 1861 Wrexham William Lloyd 48 Eleanor Lloyd 50 Elizabeth Foster dau 22 William Henry Foster son in law 27 1871 Wrexham Elizabeth is now married to William Willthingy ,32 a butcher born c 1839 This is before Fanny is born in 1872. This may be William the brother of Fanny. 1891 Wrexham. All born Wrexham . Richard Jones 60 Martha Jones 50 Walter Jones 20 Sarah Jones 18 Ellen Jones 15 Richard Jones 13 Williams H Jones 8 William Willthingy 20 nephew 1901 Knighton Thomas Dodd 57 Margaret Dodd 54 Gilbert Dodd 26 Minnie Dodd 25 Cuthbert Dodd 18 Arnold T Dodd 12 William Wilthingy boarder 28 engineman b Wrexham Mary Lloyd 21 1911 Bucknell Salop. married 7 years William Willthingy 41 railwayman b Wrotham, ( Wrexham) Ennie Willthingy 30 Freda E May Willthingy 6 Cerrie Wm Willthingy 4 Margaret Dodd mother in law 64
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Post by frankm on Oct 1, 2017 20:22:39 GMT
Thanks for all this it will take sometime to go through :-)
This did catch my eye
Will. William Wilthingy , died 20 July 1878. Plas Noble . AGED 39 born c 1839 Will proved 24 August 1879 by Richard Jones, Oakley House in this parish, nephew and Samuel Dale farmer of Deeside Holt . Why did the will take so long to prove ?
newspapers.library.wales/view/4592152/4592156/35/ Died 17 Sept 1885 aged 73. Bc 1812. Elizabeth Wilthingy 73 widow of William Willthingy, Plas Noble died at Gatewen . She is much older than William was, but could be another family member, grandmother perhaps. Also she would be about 60 when Fanny was born.
I have copy of what looks like this but there is no mention of age in the probate. I believe this is William born 1813 brother of Edward (1810-1847). He was married to Elizabeth Jones. They had no children and lived at Plas Noble. They did have a "daughter" Ann Arnold. She was the daughter of Elizabeth's sister Sarah. Sarah's husband died late 1847 and she had a son Richard early 1848. Ann went to live with William & Elizabeth and stayed there. The Richard Jones mentioned in the probate is Ann's husband. I have been looking at Ann's history quite recently as it was a puzzle why she was there.
Thanks again
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Post by annedw on Oct 2, 2017 12:08:46 GMT
This may be William the brother of Fanny. 1891 Wrexham. All born Wrexham . Richard Jones 60 Martha Jones 50 Walter Jones 20 Sarah Jones 18 Ellen Jones 15 Richard Jones 13 Williams H Jones 8 William Willthingy 20 nephew
All the births of Jones children with same name appear on GRO index with mmn name Lloyd . Martha may be Elizabeths sister. A good way to check is the marriage of William Willco*ck to Eunice Dodd. Hopefully it will name his father.
Marriages Jun 1904
Dodd Eunice Knighton Willthingy William Knighton
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Post by annedw on Oct 2, 2017 12:44:22 GMT
newspapers.library.wales/view/3855598/3855602/20/1878 death of William Willco*ck . Buried at new Cemetery Wrexham -On Sunday week, Mr Wilco*ck, butcher and farmer, of Plas Noble, near Gvfelia, had a stroke, from the effects of which he died, and he was buried at the new cemetery on Wednesday. Deceased was well known as an upright tradesman newspapers.library.wales/view/3855144/3855145/1/WILLIAM WILLCO.CK, DECEASED. Notice given that all 1 persons having any claims or demands against the estate or effects of William Willco.ck, late Plas- noble, in the parish of Marchwiel, Farmer and Grazier, deceased who died July, 1878, and whose will was proved in the Principal Registry of the Probate Div ision of Her Majesty's High Court of Justice, on the 24th day of August, 1878, by Richard -lones, is the said parish of Marchwiel, Gentleman, and Samuel Dale, of Deeside, Holt, in the said county of Denbigh, Farmer, newspapers.library.wales/view/4581513/4581518/26/Un named in paper but this is a match. Deaths Mar 1875 WILLCO.CK John 79 Wrexham newspapers.library.wales/search?range%5Bmin%5D=1804&range%5Bmax%5D=1919&query=%22plas+noble%22&page=1A search for Plas Noble gives more results because Wilco*ck is spelt in various ways
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