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Post by eluned on Apr 4, 2008 8:01:39 GMT
Billy Bloggs wrote: I am trying to get info on a Robert Williams who married a Frances Cotton in 1848 They had a son Tregold Mathew in 1852. They lived at Brymbo I think. Any assistance would be most helpful.
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Post by eluned on Apr 4, 2008 8:11:26 GMT
I have just had a quick look on ancestry and found a marriage for Robert and Frances, Dec 1/4 1848 Wrexham. Thegold registered Dec 1/4 1852 Wrexham. But I haven't found them on the census. I would have thought he shouldn't have been too difficult to find! Not like searching for his father ;D What info do you already have?
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Post by eluned on Apr 4, 2008 8:36:30 GMT
I have had a look on the North Wales BMD and the marriage and birth do not appear The only period for Wrexham that isn't covered for births is during WW1 so why isn't it showing this birth! Anybody got any clues?
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Post by annedw on Apr 4, 2008 11:29:04 GMT
Free BMD. Same result as Lynn. Dec 1848 Frances Cotton & Robert Williams. WREXHAM Dec 1852 Tregold Matthew Williams .WREXHAM OK here we go. 1871 living at Pwlly go Adwy. John Cotton widower 71 b Melton. Leics William son unm 40 b Rhosberse. General servant John Humphries son in law marr 38 Carpenter b Corwen Mary " daughter 38 house keeper b Rhosberse Mathew Williams unm grandson 18 Engine cleaner b AdwyGeorge Cotton unm son 26 Keeper b Pwlly go 1861 living at Pwlly go John Cotton widower 62 groom. William Cotton 32 unm gardener b Wrexham John Humphries 23 son in law carpenter b Corwen Mary " " 28 ? daug marr Mathew Williams 7 grandson scholar b Wrexham So have his parents died. 1851 living at Pwlly go ALL BORN WREXHAM Jane Cotton head marr 47. wife of a groom . b Wrexham William Cotton 21 son .under game keeper William Clark 21 son in law engineer Mary Clark 18 daughter Thomas Cotton 16 son. under groom John Cotton 14 son Henry Cotton 11 son Charles Coton 9 son George Cotton 6 son 1841 census is not avaiable for Wrexham area. so unless we find Frances in 1851/61 we are stuck. There are at least 6 Frances Williams deaths registered Wrexham between 1852 and 1871. Not even tried for Robert I suppose the marriage certificate would be the best chance for more on Robert. So where are Robert and Frances.
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Post by annedw on Apr 4, 2008 14:17:11 GMT
1851 Pentre Farm / Fron Brymbo Robert Williams 22 b Wrexham engineer. Fanny " 20 b Cheshire Malpas. Louisa 2.1/2 b Brymbo Jane 6 months. This could be them ============================================ Found this query elswhere it`s possible Mathew was living in London 1901 according to the other one. Looks like Billy Bloggs is in Australia, so he`s too far away to do research himself. ;D ;D ;D I shall be in the museum next week so will have alooksee for the marriage entry and see what that throws up. Lets hope they were married in church
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Post by hilary on Apr 4, 2008 23:24:34 GMT
Tregold sounds Cornish..... Hilary
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Post by annedw on Apr 5, 2008 14:23:10 GMT
1901 and Mathew 46 b Minera is living in 6 Paradise Cottages Bromley. East India Docks. He is a widower with 9 year old son Tredgold M b Canning Town Essex and Andrew aged 4.b Poplar London. He is an engine fitter. So where is he between 1871 and 1901 and who was his wife. I know this isn`t the original question about Robert his father, but it`s quite interesting anyway Isn`t it great to have a name like Tredgold to follow, but it would be easier if Mathew had used it more
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Post by eluned on Apr 5, 2008 14:57:26 GMT
I suppose Billy Bloggs has got Tredgold M Williams m a Clarabut in Sept 1919, Hackney, Greater London.
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Post by billybloggs on Apr 6, 2008 9:17:53 GMT
Thank you very much for all the help. What I have is the birth certificate of Tregold Mathew Williams bn 1852 Wrexham, Father Robert, mother Frances nee Cotton living at Pentre Farm, Brymbo. I have no idea what happened To Robert or Frances and for that matter, Roberts sisters Louisa & Jane who I had no idea existed. Tregold Mathew ended up in London, dropping the Tregold but called his son Tredgold Mathew also. He is my grandfather. He married Elsie Mae Clarabut in 1919 and came out to Australia the following year. The mystery for me is Robert, Frances and Tregold Mathew and whatever extended family their is? I will endevour to get the marriage certificate for Robert and Frances which I am sure will help. Once again, I am most grateful for any help possible
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Post by annedw on Apr 6, 2008 9:56:14 GMT
Hi Biily Bloggs, I will be looking at Prs tomorrow, and hopefully find the marriage. That should give Roberts fathers name and occupation , or at least where he was lving. I think Pentre FARM, should be Pentre Fron / Fram , it`s an area between Brymbo, Minera / Coedpoeth. There are a few Frances Williams deaths in the following years, so I`ll check them out. If they were Church goers I should hopefully find them, but if they were married in Chapel , then records of BMDs are not easy to find.
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Post by annedw on Apr 6, 2008 15:36:22 GMT
Ive added the named to the previous census records just in case they match with anyone else. More census 1881 still at Pwll y go John Cotton 80 wid. William Cotton 57 ( something) usher. John Humphries s in l 46 joiner Mary " " dau 48 Jesse Adams 8 boarder male b London. 1891 still at Pwll y go John Humphries head 51 joiner Mary 57 wife William Cotton 62 brother gen lab Jessie Adams 18 ( now changed sex and is a female )dressmaker b London. 1901 Pwll y go George Cotton 63 widower , gardener. speaks both Eng and Welsh. He is living alone and seems to be the only member of the Cotton family still in the area. There are some born Bersham living in other areas. Next property is Home Farm Cottage and then Wrexham Lodge, I`ve found something on the Wrexham Gov site, and it says The Dolls House, Pwll Y Go Cottage, Ruthin Road Coedpoeth. Now for all of us that are local, we`ll know exactly where that is. For many years there was always a doll in an upstairs window of a stone cottage .You could see it from the road. I think for some reason , maybe the owners moved and she disappeared. She was missed so much , and so many people from all over commented on it that she was replaced , and I think she is still there.I`ll have to look next time I pass.
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Post by eluned on Apr 7, 2008 18:02:36 GMT
I think I have located the marriage. I reckon the North Wales BMD as made an error and that when trying to search for Frances, it brings up Thomas Cotton. On the same page are 2 other males (Robert Williams being one of them!) and only 1 female. Cross checking with Ancestry finds a Frances not a Thomas on that same page. So I reckon the marriage was at All Saints, Gresford.
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Post by annedw on Apr 15, 2008 16:24:34 GMT
All Saints Gresford. Marriages. 1848 Dec 24. Robert Williams ba. under age. Engine driver. Gwersyllt. Father John Williams. White smith. Frances Cotton sp. under age. Gwersyllt. Father John Cotton . Groom. Both signed their names. Wittnesses were, William Cotton and Mary Cotton.
St Giles Wrexham Baptisms. 1828 Jan 12 Robert Williams son of John and Elizabeth, Smith ( fathers occupation ) WR ( Wrexham Regis ).
Of course we can`t be 100 % sure this is the right one, but it was the only one that matched father and occupation. Looking at the defination of Whitesmith, it is someone that worked with tin or iron, and made small items like pots and pans.
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Post by annedw on May 1, 2008 13:22:30 GMT
I drove past what I think is Pwll Y Go the other day, and slowed down to check the name on the house. Set in the wall , inscribed in Gold coloured lettering is a plaque bearing the name ` The Dolls House` . It just shows to go that if you are looking for your ancestral home , what might have been called one thing in 1850 could now be something completely unrelated. Personally I`m not in favour of this, but that`s only my opinion. I suppose it`s better than ` Dunroamin` or `Thisledo` ;D ;D ;D Lets hope Billy Bloggs gets back to this site after us finding what he wanted. I`m sure he`ll be pleased.
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Post by billybloggs on May 14, 2008 2:21:03 GMT
Hello all. I am absolutely thrilled. Well though I am very new to genealogy, I am over the moon as to how far I have come with limited information. I cannot thank you enough Anne & Lynn as without your imput I would be none the wiser. It is amazing to be able to find your roots from the other side of the world. I will always, along with my children have an affinity with the Minera area, and will endeavour to visit the area one day in the future. I dare say with records being scarce prior to 1837, John & Elizabeth Williams would just about be end of the line. Once again, thank you very much and will continue to keep in touch. billybloggs
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Post by annedw on May 14, 2008 12:23:49 GMT
Hi Billybloggs, Luckily enough there are records before 1837 in the form of the parish Registers in Wrexham. It might be possible to find a marriage for John and Elizabeth, with him having a `trade` he might be easier to trace then an ag lab. or coal miner. Roberts may have had siblings. Williams is a common name, but I can try. With some luck Elizabeth may be a Fazarkerly-Ramsbottom- Smythe, or more than likely a Jones I can check out deaths . Francis seems to have dissapeared after 1851, She or Robert could have died, or re-married.
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Post by annedw on May 14, 2008 13:27:37 GMT
I thought this man may be related , but now am not so sure. I`ll leave him here in case he belongs to somebody 1851 Little Mountain, Gwersyllt, Gresford parish. William Williams Head 38 SMITH b Gresford. Sophia 38 wife b Wrexham Mary 8 b Gresford William 5 b Gresford Samuel 2 b Gresford Elizabeth Williams Mother in law. widow 71 Annuitant b Gresford. b c 1780.. I can`t find a marriage for William and Sophia, it would be good to check who his father was. A William Williams was born Jan 25, bapt Gresford Mar 27 1812, s/o William a lab.and Elizabeth. Llay. Looks like this could be the one, but not the father we want. Never mind,
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Post by eluned on May 14, 2008 18:42:32 GMT
Could this be the marriage? Sophia Williams m ? William Williams or John Jones 1840 North Wales bmd - St. Bridget, Dyserth Ancestry- Jun 1/4 Great Boughton, Cheshire/Flint.
I am guessing these are one and the same but not being a local, I can only guess! So she could be Sophia's mother and so mother in law may be right.
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Post by annedw on May 14, 2008 19:41:44 GMT
Hmmm, thats thrown a spanner in the works, Dyserth is close to Prestatyn Flints , and is under St Asaph Registration . Gt Boughton is Cheshire and only Hawarden in Flints,was part of it for a while. It would be right for the Mother in law though , I am stumped for a while now. B****R , I think a looksee at Gresford Prs and St Giles is needed.
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Post by sceptrelady on May 14, 2008 22:12:22 GMT
Hi billyblogs
Don't know whether you have seen this but there is a submitted entry on the IGI for John Cotton, christening Apr 14, 1800, Shepshed, Leicester England, father John Cotton, mother Sarah
Source Information: Film Number: 183594 Page Number: 1542 Reference number: 23151
HTH Heather
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Post by annedw on May 22, 2008 15:44:09 GMT
Going back to 1851; 1851 Pentre Farm / Fron Brymbo Robert Williams 22 b Wrexham engineer. Fanny " 20 b Cheshire Malpas. Louisa 2.1/2 b Brymbo Jane 6 months
I wonder if this is Louisa. 1861 Mount, Brymbo. Ann Hughes wid 48 Shop and Inn keeper. b Wrexham Hugh Hughes son 25 maltster b WXM Elis Jones 23 boarder 23 b Rhosymedre Elizabeth Edwards 27 House servant b Mold Louisa Williams 14 servant b Adwy Clawdd Edward Jones 30 farm servant b Brymbo.
The inn is probably the Mount, which was still there till a few years ago.
There is another Louisa Williams aged 3 in 1851, she is a visitor at the home of Margaret Whitehead 50 , a charwoman living at Pentrefelin. This Louisa was born Wrexham, it just doesn`t seem to match up and I think the one at the Mount is correct.
Is this Louisa in 1871 in London. We know her brother Tredgold Mathew moved down there by about 1891, but it could have been sooner. 1871 2 Cornwall Terr. Dorset Square & Regents Park. Marylebone. John James widower 62 Carpainter ? b London. Louisa Williams,24 unm servant B North Wales. There are three more servants.
The next propetry seems to be a private school for well to do pupils. They are born all over the world. Ceylon, Calcutta, Genoa, Singapore, and Ireland ;D
;D ;D ;D I`ve found the birth of Tredgold Mathew Williams. Mar qtr 1892 West Ham, so why can`t I find his Dad with the same name, or just Mathew in 1891.
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Post by annedw on May 28, 2008 16:54:46 GMT
St Giles Wrexham Marriage. 1827 Aug 11 John Williams ba. whitesmith . otp. ( signed his name ) Elizabeth Thomas sp otp. ( made her mark ) Wittnesses were Mathew Roberts and Maria Evans. Because there is no age for John , and no father named it`s a hard task to find his baptism. There are so many JW`s that it is practically impossible to choose the right one. Maybe someone with transripts can come up with something.
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