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Post by johnn on Dec 31, 2011 15:18:57 GMT
I am researching my family. My great grandfather Jonathan Davies, born in Minera 1856. Moved to Brymbo then Wrexham - Mining engineer. Worked in USA, Mexico & South Africa in late 1800's. Died on return from South Africa in 1903.
His parents, Daniel Davies Engineer born Minera about 1817 & Hannah Hope, cottager, born about 1823 Minera. Married St Giles Parish Church, Wrexham 23/12/1845 Witness: Joseph Hellen
Daniel Davies' Father, Henry Davies Farmer (Minera?) Mother not known
Hannah Hope's parents Samuel Hope, Miner and Ellinor Hope (Minera) Spelling of Ellinor from Marriage Cert
Any information would be really helpful
Many thanks
John
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Post by eluned on Dec 31, 2011 16:25:48 GMT
Hi Johnn and welcome Unfortunately I can't help at the mo as I'm getting ready to go out....well it is New Year's Eve!
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Post by johnn on Jan 1, 2012 11:41:16 GMT
Hi Eluned
Hope you had a good night out & happy New Year!
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Post by tominera on Jan 1, 2012 18:54:24 GMT
Hi, I am presuming you already have census details, but I am putting this on just to get the party started so to speak and it may help someone to trace your ancestors. Living in Broughton in 1861 DAVIES Daniel 45 Engine Feeder born Wrexham DAVIES Hanah 38 Engine Feeders Wife born Wrexham DAVIES Mary J 13 Scholar born Manchester DAVIES Hanah 11 Scholar born Wrexham DAVIES Daniel 9 Scholar born Wrexham DAVIES Margaret 7 Scholar born Wrexham DAVIES Johnathan 5 Scholar born Wrexham DAVIES Elizabeth 1? born Broughton--Tom---Have corrected my very senior moment Soree
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Post by eluned on Jan 2, 2012 8:41:28 GMT
Hi Eluned Hope you had a good night out & happy New Year! Thank you and Happy New Year to you too. Now back to task.... Hannah Hope's parents Samuel Hope, Miner and Ellinor Hope (Minera) Spelling of Ellinor from Marriage CertAs you already have the marriage for Samuel & Ellinor, could you post the details please? What further information do you require on the Hope family, I ask this to avoid duplication?
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Post by eluned on Jan 2, 2012 9:40:10 GMT
Davies. Tom's 1861 lookup is correct but has posted them as Hughes! Living 1, Broughton Terrace. Daniel was a lime burner living Bwlchgwyn in 1851. HO107/2502/312/21 I wonder if this is Daniel's father.. 1851 Tan y Bwlch, Minera HO107/2503/739/12 Henry Davies H 60 farmer employing 4 men b.Llanarmon Margret wife 60 b.Ruabon Elizabeth daur unm 22 employed at home b.Ruabon Mary daur unm 20 ditto b.Ruabon Daniel Davies nephew 11 b.Manchester Mary Ann Davies niece 4 b.Manchester
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Post by eluned on Jan 2, 2012 9:59:16 GMT
1861 Ty Hir, Minera RG9/4286/77/4 Ishmael Jones H 34 farmer of 100 acres, keeping 3 men b.Rhiw, DEN Elizabeth Jones wife 32 b.Rhos Margaret Jones daur 9mths ? (transcribed as 3mths) b.Minera Margaret Davies mother in law 70 farmers widow b.Ponkey Charles Davies nephew 14 ag lab b.Manchester Margaret Price serv 14 b.Ffrith
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Post by eluned on Jan 2, 2012 10:26:38 GMT
Do you have these baptisms? www.scribd.com/doc/28981723/Wern-Chapel-Baptism-Burial-Register-WrexhamHannah Bap 1 Jan 1849, born 7 Dec 1848 to Daniel Davies and Hannah Hope, limeworker. Daniel Bap 21 Feb 1851, born 26 Jan 1851 to Daniel Davies and Hannah Hope, Bwlchgwyn. Jonathan Bap 23 May 1856, born 18 Jan 1856 to Daniel Davies and Hannah Hope, Bwlchgwyn. Margaret Bap 26 Dec 1853, born 9 Aug 1853 to Daniel Davies and Hannah Hope, miner, Bwlchgwyn.
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Post by johnn on Jan 2, 2012 20:49:33 GMT
Thank you so much for the information.
I do not have a marriage record for Samuel & Ellinor which I would love to track.
I do have the Marriage Certificate for Daniel Davies & Hannah Hope both living in Minera, married at St Giles, Wrexham on 23/12/1845. The cert lists Henry Davies (Farmer) and Samuel Hope (Miner) as the fathers. One of the witnesses is Ellinor Hope which I have assumed is the mother, however it could be a sister.
I cannot find a burial record for Jonathan (his wife Sarah Ann buried at Wrexham) He died Wrexham Road, Brymbo 1903. I have a number of letters both in English and Welsh from Jonathan. The early family home was in Lodge, Brymbo.
The Henry 1851 link you have given seems promising. It would seem that the eldest nephew and eldest son are both Daniel – may be a grandfathers name?
Is Tan y Bwlch, Wern Chapel or Broughton Terrace still in existence?
I have a scan of a photograph of Daniel’s son Jonathan in c1865 about 9 yrs as the engineer in charge, one relative records as a water pump although looks like winding gear. It must be in the Minera / Wrexham area – is there anyone who might be able to identify the location and or machinery?
Jonathan’s wife Sarah Ann Wynne finally lived in Bersham Road, Wrexham. She was the organist at the Victoria Hall Church, Wrexham well in to her 90’s (died 1956). I have a number of photos of Sarah Ann & Jonathan. Jonathan was reputed to be able to sing the whole of the Messiah alto part from memory as a young boy!
Jonathan’s christening is the one you have listed.
Once again, many thanks
Regards
John
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Post by eluned on Jan 2, 2012 22:08:26 GMT
Thank you so much for the information. I do not have a marriage record for Samuel & Ellinor which I would love to track. I do have the Marriage Certificate for Daniel Davies & Hannah Hope both living in Minera, married at St Giles, Wrexham on 23/12/1845. The cert lists Henry Davies (Farmer) and Samuel Hope (Miner) as the fathers. One of the witnesses is Ellinor Hope which I have assumed is the mother, however it could be a sister. Regards John That explains the query I had about the marriage cert, thank you. Perhaps you could post the industrial photo on here, there are lots of members with varied knowledge and hopefully someone will be able to help. So the thread doesn't become too confused, I have made a new thread for the Hope family which is available via this link. minerahistory.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1340
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 14:25:59 GMT
Hi Posting death registration date for Jonathan Davies as it may help others search for his burial. Mar 1/4 1903 47yrs Where have you searched so far to avoid duplication please? Have you tried Brymbo St Marys Parish Church? I see Sarah Ann worshipped at the Victoria Hall Church which was Calvinistic Methodist, I guess we can also confirm Jonathan as non conformist. Modified to correct a typo.
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 14:49:44 GMT
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Post by johnn on Jan 3, 2012 16:37:16 GMT
Thank you again - fantastic. Ive looked through the board but cannot find how to upload a photo - could you help please?
Many thanks
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 16:39:32 GMT
Go to reply. Choose the Browse option to select your picture. Add a message.
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Post by johnn on Jan 3, 2012 16:46:07 GMT
My great grandfather (Jonathan Davies B 1856) c1865. He was the Engineer in charge of the machinery. A family member thinks it was a water pump but looks more like winding gear. Can anyone identify the machinery or the location please? Many thanks Attachments:
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Post by johnn on Jan 3, 2012 16:55:04 GMT
Jonathan Davies with wife Sarah Ann Wynne (b Coedpoeth 1861) with 2 of 3 surviving children Samuel Charles, & Blodwen c1898 Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 17:08:13 GMT
Great photo the Ist one Johnn.
I believe outdoor photos for the time period you mention weren't common.
Are you sure its 1860s? What type of photo was the original....its size? Anything written on the back?
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Post by johnn on Jan 3, 2012 17:55:26 GMT
I added 10 yrs from his year of birth. The original is with a Aunt (widow of one of the grandchildren) in mid Wales - it was a copy given to me many years ago - I dont know if anything on the rear or the size of the original - I will check.
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 19:11:46 GMT
The photo could be of the winding gear for a pit.
It would usually be housed inside an engine house but this photo may be showing it before it is completed.
There doesn't seem to be any pipes connected to it and neither is the cable connected to anything.
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 19:47:12 GMT
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Post by eluned on Jan 3, 2012 21:55:27 GMT
You're also searching for baptism of Daniel Davies b.c.1817, father Henry, farmer.
Posting census returns to check Daniels place of birth. 1881 RG11/5517/15/22 Daniel Davies H 62 boiler inspector b.Minera Hannah wife 59 b.Minera Jonathan son 25 engine driver at colliery Louisa daur 18 serv b.Lodge
1871 Lodge, Brymbo RG10/5654/53/73 Daniel Davies H 52 engine fitter Hannah wife 48 Daniel son 21 colliery engine driver Jonathan son 16 ditto Elizabeth daur 10 sch Louisa daur 9 sch All born Wrexham
1861 1 Broughton Terrace RG9/4285/89/6 Daniel Davies H 45 engine feeder b.Wrexham Hanah wife 38 b.Wrexham Mary J daur 13 sch b.Manchester Hanah daur 11 " b.Wrexham Daniel son 9 " b.Wrexham Margaret daur 7 " b.Wrexham Johnathan son 5 " b.Wrexham Elizabeth daur 1 b.Broughton
1851 Bwlchgwyn HO107/2502/312/21 Daniel Davies H 34 lime burner b.Minera Hannah wife 28 b.Minera Mary Jane daur 4 b.Manchester Hannah daur 2 b.Minera Daniel son 9wks b.Brymbo
Baptisms not found in Minera PRs, need to check Wrexham.
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Post by eluned on Jan 4, 2012 9:55:46 GMT
Hi Posting death registration date for Jonathan Davies as it may help others search for his burial. Mar 1/4 1903 47yrs Where have you searched so far to avoid duplication please? Have you tried Brymbo St Marys Parish Church? I see Sarah Ann worshipped at the Victoria Hall Church which was Calvinistic Methodist, I guess we can also confirm Jonathan as non conformist.
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Post by johnn on Jan 4, 2012 15:51:02 GMT
Hi
I haven't done a lot with a family history over the last 12 months and have only restarted at Christmas with the Davies branch of my family. I haven't had a look at Brymbo St Mary's records yet and I don't seem to be able to find any on-line. I will be taking a trip to the Flintshire records office next week and I will have a look there as they also have all the Denbighshire records.
I'm going to attempt a new thread for the photograph with the machinery. I would agree that it looks like a newly opened site. My mother thought it might be Bersham colliery but I have no evidence for that - I will be telephoning the owner of the photograph and another member of the family to see if I can shed any light on where the location is.
Many thanks
John
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Post by eluned on Jan 4, 2012 15:57:42 GMT
Hi Not necessarily a coal mine either, could be lead
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Post by annedw on Jan 6, 2012 17:24:33 GMT
I found mention of a Daniel Davies who was chief engineer at Broughton Colliery on March 22, 1873 Also August 29, 1874; D Davies, Broughton Colliery mentioned when the National federation of Enginemen held their first demonstation at Wrexham, at the time engine men were on strike in Staffordshire He is mentioned again as Mr Daniel Davies engineer ,on Nov 6 1875 in an inquest on a man killed at Broughton Colliery
Could this be the same man ?
Broughton Hall colliery is mentioned in a paper dated February 25, 1853.
In the paper dated March 06, 1858, Brymbo ; Broughton Hall; Brynmally ; Pen Y Coed; Vron and Westminster are named seperately as collieries.
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Post by annedw on Jan 7, 2012 12:32:25 GMT
www.chris-myers.co.uk/broughton-community.htmlAs a settlement New Broughton did'nt exist until about 1883. New Broughton takes it's name from the adjacent colliery sunk in 1883, labelled 'New' to distinguish it from the 'Old' Broughton (Broughton Hall) colliery sunk in 1835 by John Pearce and Richard Gough who also had the Southsea Colliery and Broughton Forge. if this is the correct Daniel Davies, then it must have been the "Old Broughton " colliery he was at, as the new one didn`t open till 1883.
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Post by johnn on Jan 7, 2012 20:42:30 GMT
Thank you for all the information.
The two Daniels my great-grandfather's father's father (born 1819) and his elder brother (born 1850).
The 1861 census records the family living at one Broughton Terrace, Broughton. Daniel senior is 45 and his occupation listed as Engine Feeder. All the children are recorded as “in-school” Does anyone know if Broughton Terrace still exists?
The 1871 census Daniel senior occupation is recorded as engine fitter. Jonathan and Daniel are listed as Colliery engine drivers. They were living at Lodge, Brymbo.
I hope that helps
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Post by annedw on Jan 8, 2012 16:36:11 GMT
I cannot find a burial record for Jonathan (his wife Sarah Ann buried at Wrexham) He died Wrexham Road, Brymbo 1903.
Have you looked for an obituary in the paper. If was well travelled perhaps there would be a mention
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Post by johnn on Jan 8, 2012 17:29:54 GMT
No not yet but will - many thanks
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Post by tommy1 on Jun 13, 2013 19:49:52 GMT
Hello I just join this site and happen to notice your subject. Johnathan Davies is my Great,Great Grandpa. Here is a link to go to for more information. He married Isabelle French and lived for awhile in Scranton,Pennsylvania. Thank you for the additional information about him travelling . Never knew that. Tom Owens
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