|
Post by sceptrelady on May 28, 2008 7:13:52 GMT
I have a death certificate of my gg grandmother Sinah Roberts who died at Talwin Bersham November 5, 1879, age 59. Have been searching for the death certificate for her husband Robert Roberts, baptised 1808 in Bryneglwys, retired blacksmith. He is listed on the 1881 census in Toxteth Park so tried there first, then Corwen in case he returned to Bryneglwys but not having any luck.
It has occured to me that if I could find Sinah's burial Robert might be buried with her. Nothing comes up on the search at Wrexham Cemetary and also on the Open church Network Site. Did Bersham have its own cemetary in 1879? I don't know whether she/they were chapel or church which complicates matters further. Any and all suggestions or help much appreciated.
Heather
PS I've been informed by "reliable sources" that my 2nd cousin Emyr of Coedpoeth is now online. If you see this post, Emyr or know where Sinah is buried already, please send me a personal message through this site!!
|
|
|
Post by annedw on May 28, 2008 15:17:06 GMT
She`s not in Minera. Could be in St Giles Wrexham, but I didn`t have time to look. Would it be a " Talwin" in Bersham village, or Talwrn ( Coedpeth ) in the parish of Bersham. Where are they in 1871, Coedpoeth cemetery wasn`t open then, and St Tudfils not open till 1879.
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on May 28, 2008 18:20:20 GMT
Hi annedw Robert & Sinah were at Penrhos Smithy in Bryneglwys in 1871, along with youngest son Robert age 11 it is hard to read. I've looked at the certificate again - it is really hard to tell whether it is an "r" or an "i" between the "w" and the "n". (Sorry have not mastered how to post a pic on here or would post it!) It just says Talw*n Bersham. Her son in law Robert Jones was present at the death and he gave an address in Llangollen. In 1881 Robert and Sinah's daughter Margaret were living at Station Road, Gwersyllt. They had a son age 2. Sinah's cause of death was Inflammation of the Liver duration one week. So I'm thinking maybe she was visiting them and was taken ill at that time. Paul from Rootschat has looked at the Bryneglwys and Llangollen burials for me but reports that there is nothing for Sinah or Robert. I did find a death notice in 1888 for a Robert Roberts of Maes Gwyn, Bryn Eglwys, who died in Liverpool at his son in law's residence, age 68 (mine would have been 79 or 80), and he was to be buried at Bryn Eglwys Chapel Cemetary so perhaps that is where mine was buried as well I ordered several certs from GRO before I smartened up and started specifying retired blacksmith or smith as a checking factor but no luck. The only thing I can think of is that Robert's age at death was reported incorrectly. He is listed as age 74 in Toxteth in 1881 when it should have been 72. His daughter Jane & her husband Francis Roberts were still in Toxteth in 1891 - no sign of Robert. His father lived to be 87 so there is also the possibility he was still alive somewhere in 1891 and I just can't find him, so have been looking beyond 1891 as well as collecting all censuses for his children in case he was visiting one of them when he died.
|
|
|
Post by annedw on May 28, 2008 19:56:41 GMT
Done a bit of detective work and found Robert and Margarets son Robert Edward was born in Llandynan c 1879, about the same time that Sinah died. Llandynan is just outside Llangollen , and just over the mountain from Bryneglwys. If Sinah died while visiting Llandynan, maybe to help out at the birth, then she should be registered at Corwen. Sinah`s death was registered in Wrexham, so maybe she was in Gwersyllt, Gwersyllt church was built by then, and had a cemetery. Perhaps she is buried in Gwersyllt. I always wonder where non-conformist people from Gwersyllt were buried, because I know of no chapels with graveyards. I think perhaps they were taken to Wrexham Ruthin Road cemetery. Problem is there are no burial records for there, only MI`s.
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on May 28, 2008 20:30:08 GMT
Thanks for helping me puzzle this one out Annette. I have the Wrexham Ruthin Road MI book and unfortunately Sinah does not appear in there either I wondered about Gwersyllt but then figured that they can't have moved there if Robert still gave his address as in Llangollen. It's a real headache. Every once in a while I chew on it like a dog with a bone then I leave it again!! BTW am in contact with a descendant of Robert & Margaret Robert Jones and she doesn't know any more than I do! Lynne thinks that maybe Sinah was buried at Rehoboth. This may be the answer cos her daughter my Winifred Roberts Carrington was chapel/Rehoboth/Gwynfryn at the time. Gwynfryn didn't have a cemetary so Rehoboth would have been the next logical place. OOOH have just had a thought - don't laugh it wasn't painful ;D.....Winifred & John's first daughter Mary Elizabeth was born/baptized July 18, 1878. She died & was buried October 12th 1879. I've always thought it was really sad because the second daughter named SINAH was born/baptized November 30, 1879. What an awful time for poor Winifred because Sinah died November 5th. Why on earth i didn't put two and two together before I don't know but that would explain why Sinah was in Bersham/Coedpoeth wouldn't it???
|
|
|
Post by annedw on May 28, 2008 21:19:03 GMT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAargh More Carringtons It didn`t click about Robert and Llangollen , him being the same as Gwersyllt 1881. I know Lynn has mentioned a `magazine` that she has seen in Wrexham museum, I wonder if Sinah may show up in that. I can`t recall the name of it. I can check it out next time I`m there.
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on May 28, 2008 23:40:43 GMT
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAargh More Carringtons SORRY ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D bit like a weed you can't get rid of I've had a look at Tom Mercer's site and couldn't see any Sinah's there either. There is a Sarah & Robert Roberts at Wern grave 198?? H
|
|
|
Post by eluned on May 29, 2008 11:08:25 GMT
Its "Cylchgrawn" and covers the Coedpoeth Wesleyan circuit but you may struggle for the dates required cos I believe the first copy in Wrexham is 1888.
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on May 29, 2008 14:51:09 GMT
Thank you Lynn
|
|
|
Post by annedw on May 29, 2008 19:33:12 GMT
I did find a death notice in 1888 for a Robert Roberts of Maes Gwyn, Bryn Eglwys, who died in Liverpool at his son in law's residence, age 68 (mine would have been 79 or 80), and he was to be buried at Bryn Eglwys Chapel Cemetary so perhaps that is where mine was buried as well It seems there is only one chapel in Bryneglwys , Sion, Calvanistic Methodists. there were 192 members I found this info from National Archives site. These are held at Bangor Library. Sion/Seion Calvinistic Methodist Chapel, Bryneglwys 1857-1892: registers of baptisms, marriages, and burials Repository University of Wales Bangor, Archives Department. More info from Archives network www.archivesnetworkwales.info/cgi-bin/anw/fulldesc_nofr?inst_id=39&coll_id=10982&expand=Unfortunately it`s a bit of a trek for me, but maybe an email from you will solve it. They are very helpful, they have the Wern chapel records and allowed me to photograph them all. Other records for Sion Scope 1820-1837: register of baptisms Repository The National Archives Scope 1820-1836, 1855-1897: registers of baptisms Repository National Library of Wales: Department of Collection Services
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on May 30, 2008 3:36:07 GMT
Annette Thank you VERY much for tracking that down for me. I will definitely try contacting them. I have a book called Bryneglwys Once upon a Hill and I was just reading about the Chapel there today. It doesn't mention a cemetary but that doesn't mean there wasn't one Heather
|
|
|
Post by annedw on May 30, 2008 5:59:28 GMT
Both the chapel and cemetery are still there, I passed it last weekend while we going racing. It is very large, I`m not sure if it still open. Pity Lee Wetton hasn`t done that one for his MIs web site
|
|
|
Post by sceptrelady on Sept 11, 2008 18:17:43 GMT
Just an update After checking with the University archives at Bangor, the only Robert Roberts buried at the Sion/seion Chapel is the 1888 Robert Roberts of Maes Gwyn Bryneglwys. He is the same one I mentioned in an earlier post as dying in Liverpool with obit as age 68. according to FreeBMD he was recorded June 1888 as age 68 as well. No sign of Sinah. Back to the drawing board
|
|