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Post by keithj on Jun 10, 2008 9:30:28 GMT
I've just received a marriage certificate for Edward Davies and Mary Davies, who eventually kept the King's Head in Bwlchgwyn. They married at the "Zion Chapel Wrexham according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Calvinistic Methodists". Initially I assumed that this would have been the Bryn Seion Chapel in Wrexham itself that we've been talking about recently but it seems more likely it was at Black Lane, Pentre Broughton as there are records of the Calvinistic chapel there at the National Library in Aberystwyth.
Anyone know any better?
Keith
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Post by davies1974 on Jun 10, 2008 10:42:35 GMT
I too have Davies's marrying in Zion Chapel, Wrexham (not related to yours I think) and, after a bit of research, believe the chapel in question to be Zion (Seion) Chapel, Regent Street in Wrexham town centre. Calvanistic Methodist, it was torn down in the madness of 1970's town planning and the land is now the home of McDonalds, a bakers and Superdrug. A picture of it is on the link below. www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/heritage/150_exhibition/then_now.htmWhen it was demolished it was reborn as Capel Y Groes in Bodhyfred, Wrexham which I believe is still active. Below is a link to a page on RootsWeb with a comment from and email address of the daughter of the last deacon of the Regent St location. It's an old message but the contact address may still be valid. archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/CLWYD/2004-12/1101948188
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Post by keithj on Jun 10, 2008 11:11:14 GMT
I think I'm getting more confused by the minute! Zion this and Seion that - this poor little Saes is getting very fuddled. The couple married on 2nd October 1867 but I don't think the marriage certificate helps by itself, unless anyone else has a civil marriage certificate for Bryn Seion Chapel in Brymbo or the Zion Chapel at Blacklane so we can be sure how the various chapels were distinguished by the Registrars. From the way the certificate is laid out, with the name Thomas Francis above that of the Registrar, Rich. Hughes, that the minister is Rev Francis. That might help but does look rather like a needle in a haystack from over here in Derby. It probably doesn't matter too much as this family is slightly off my main line but it might have helped me find her father, Evan Davies a labourer in the 1861 or 1871 censuses. She's not doing much to help me anyway. In 1881 she says she was born at Newtown, Mon, but in 1891 it's Welshpool instead. Do you think they did this kind of thing on purpose to baffle their descendants? ;D Keith
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Post by davies1974 on Jun 10, 2008 11:44:33 GMT
I know what you mean about confusing us. I have a relative who, in the 1971 census ws born in Derwen, Llanelidan in the 1881 census and Minera in the 1891 census. I dont know whether this is due to mistakes on the census itself or if he himself wasn't entierly sure! I also spent a day trying to work out where N.K. Flintshire was, looking through the map for a place with the initial N.K. before I realised it meant 'Not Known'"! ;D
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Post by hilary on Jun 10, 2008 12:33:48 GMT
This page from Genuki might help - although there might have been another Zion in Wrexham, too. www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Broughton/Hilary (Just read the post above - there was another Zion - not might!)
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Post by keithj on Jun 10, 2008 12:35:43 GMT
I know they're one of our best sources of information but I think we often put too much trust in them, particularly because what we see are the transcriptions of the original paperwork by the enumerators. I have a similar example for Margaret Peters, nee Davies, who married Edward Peters of Ffrith. In 1851 her birthplace is given as Minera. In 1861 it becomes Ffrith but that's almost certainly a transcription error because the rest of the family do come from Ffrith and it would be very easy to make that mistake. In 1871 it's Bwlchgwyn while it changes again to Brymbo in 1881! Only in 1891 do we get anywhere near the truth - Wrexham, Denbigh. She was actually born in Broughton.
Keith
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Post by keithj on Jun 10, 2008 12:42:34 GMT
Well, it takes Bryn Seion out of the equation because that is confirmed as being Congregationalist and whichever Zion I'm looking for is Calvinistic Methodist. It's intriguing that the Blacklane chapel is not listed as Zion, although its records are shown as that on the catalogue of the LLGC. This lark's never easy, is it? Keith
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Post by hilary on Jun 10, 2008 12:57:56 GMT
Hi Ketih,
Sometimes the parishes change; also most of the houses in Bwlchgwyn are in Brymbo Parish, but the boundary puts a few of them in Minera parish. I often wonder if the person stated the correct place and the enumerator thought it would be better to put down the parish - and put down whichever he believed to be correct. Hilary
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Post by hilary on Jun 10, 2008 13:04:23 GMT
Keith - did any of your Peters come from Mold? Hilary
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Post by keithj on Jun 10, 2008 14:18:47 GMT
Parish boundaries did move around from the mid-nineteenth century into the first part of the twentieth. When you look at some of the ancient parishes you really wonder how one vicar ever managed to look after them, with all the duties they had then for poor relief, road maintenance and the like. It might be that the enumerator changed what was said to something else he thought was correct but I'm not sure that covers the diverse variations I've seen. My Great grandmother, Elizabeth Peters, was born in 1854 at Rhiw Cottages, between Llanfynydd and Ffrith. The weirdest entry I've found for her is Wrexham, Flints, which is only understandable once you know she's thinking of the registration district.
To the best of my knowledge, my Peters are not the same family as the Mold group. They were certainly aware of each other because there's a marriage in 1828 between Dorothy Peters (b 1804, Cymmau) and Thomas Peters (b 1805 Leeswood). My line runs back to Cymmau township, probably to Plas y Bwl (as it is now) near Brynyorkin Hall. The earliest occurrence of the family is in 1724, when William & Margaret Peters baptise my ancestor, William. The earliest occurrence of the name in Hope PRs is in 1703, when a Thomas is baptised to a Thomas Peters but then there's a gap to 1724.
When does the name begin in the Mold area?
Keith
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