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Post by davies1974 on Jul 8, 2008 16:42:15 GMT
The names below appear in the 1891 and 1901 census returns living in Minera and are the Aunts and Uncles of my Nain. Are the names familiar to anyone on these boards - I have little idea what happened to any of these people after 1901 and would love to know (the Davies name isn't the easiest to trace!!).
Parents are John and Elizabeth Davies.
David Rees Daviesborn circa 1879 in Hope Robert Davies born circa 1880 in Hope Elizabeth Davies born circa 1881 in Minera * Daniel Davies born circa 1883 in Minera Robert Davies born circa 1888 in Minera Catherine Ell Davies born circa 1893 in Minera
* Minera Parish records show that an Elizabeth Davies, father John, marries John Powell, a smith from the village in 1896 (she is listed as underage) and I can't find either of them on the 1901 census.
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Post by annedw on Jul 8, 2008 20:23:14 GMT
I think I`ve found John Powell b 1878.Cymmau. In 1881 living with father Robert and mother Harriet.- in Hope.
In 1891 he is a boarder in Frith living with George Williams 61 a blacksmith. Wife Elizabeth 63 b Llanfynydd Son Thomas 18, Edward 32 and George 20 all blacksmiths John Davies 23 a blacksmith, but John Powell 14 is still at school.
I guess he learned his trade here. His father was Robert who must have died. Same as marriage entry.
In 1901 Frith there is a John Powell blacksmith 22 single living with an Elizabeth Williams 72 b Llanfynydd widow and her son Thomas a blacksmith, This must be the same one as 1891.
Not much help is it really, but I thought tracking John might give a clue, but this one seems to be unsettled in any one place.
Maybe looking for some children of John and Elizabeth might help. Or maybe Elizabeth died,.
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 9, 2008 9:02:54 GMT
Thanks Annette!
I'd missed John Powell on the 1901 (and 1891 census report).
It certainly points towards Elizabeth dying but I can't find any record on the BMD death index of an Elizabeth Powell of the right age.
I can't see any obvious connection through children of a John and Elizabeth Powell but I'll keep searching!
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Post by annedw on Jul 9, 2008 12:41:56 GMT
This is very strange . As John Powell in 1901 is described as single, I checked the full BMD on Ancestry, and the marriage is not registered. I looked at Sept and Dec qtr. The only male Powell reg Wrexham is Edward in the Oct / Nov / Dec qtr I checked Free BMD and he married either Mary Morris or Ann Jane Hughes. Before 1929 under age was between 12 and 20 for a girl and 14 and 20 for a boy, so it would have been acceptable. I had thought it might have been not recognised - that`s all.
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 9, 2008 13:21:58 GMT
Very strange - I found details of their marriage on The Red Zone. John Powell, Occupation - Smith, Age Not Given, Son of Robert Powell, Miner from Plas Gwyn (deceased). Marries Elizabeth Davies (underage) Daughter of John Davies, Miner, Plas Gwyn Mountain 1st September 1896 I'd taken that report as gospel but your right I can't find it on North Wales BMD or the Marriage index on Ancestry.com Very confusing
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 9, 2008 13:22:39 GMT
The other brother not mentioned above is William Davies, born in Llanelidan in 1864 he marries Mary Elizabeth Ellis, daughter of John Ellis fom Plas Gwyn Mountain on 8th May 1886
There children are
Mary Jane born circa 1886 Sarah Elizabeth born circa 1889 John William 1894 Robert 1898 Ann 1900
Again, what became of these children after 1901 is not known by my family. All the children above where born in Minera apart from Robert who is listed as being born in Yorkshire, so a short stint working up North looks likely.
My Nains father was John Davies, born Minera circa 1869. He married Mary Kyffin from Liverpool in Birkenhead in 1896. Mary's first hustband was a Daniel Kyffin and they had a daughter Mary Cath Kyfin born 1890. In 1901 John and Mary are living in Edwards Cottage , Plas Gwyn. Mary Cathy's surname is given as Davies but I dont this it was an official adoption as in 1901 she marries Cecil Davies and gives her name as Kyffin again.
Mary and John's children include
Elizabeth Jane 1897 Sarah E 1899 Annie 1900 Lillian 1908 (my Nain)
The was also a brother that died young and I believe another sister.
Lillian died in 1991 and Annie in 1993. Elizabeth and Sarah I am unsure about.
John, a lead miner, was for a time the landlord of The Melbourne pub, but by all accounts, was fond of a drink and drank the profits away. My Dad has hazy memories of him and remembers him as 'a big man that looked like Lloyd George'.
Again, if any of these names are familiar and you have an idea as to what became of them I would love to know.
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 9, 2008 13:58:26 GMT
Okay - I've gotten to the bottom of this Elizabeth Davies / Joh Powell thing and Annette I think I owe you an apology for sending you on a wild goose chase!!!
On Redzone minera marriages there seems to be a formatting mistake after record 218. The records start with the marriage date at the top of every record. Each record is on a salmon pick background divided into what looks like a seperate page for every record. On record 218/313 for the marriage of Edward Partington there is a marriage date at the top AND bottom of the record. The bottom date, I believe should belong to that of John Charles Knight, the next marriage record down but from there on in it appears that the marriage date is at the botom of each record.
To clarify, from record 219 the date of each marriage is out of sync. It appears to be on the bottom of each record but the actual date of the marriage is on the bottom of the record ABOVE it. The way the records are divided makes it look like the date comes after and not before the wedding details.
Therefore John Powell marries an Elizabeth Davies on 8 June 1868 - a record recorded in NW BMD and not 8th June 1968 (marriage of Arthur Platt and Elizabeth Evans)
Annette, as ever, your help is really appreciated and I am so sorry for wasting your time.
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 9, 2008 14:02:00 GMT
double post
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Post by annedw on Jul 10, 2008 11:21:25 GMT
Eh ;D I`ve sussed it now, First row is marriage date, then names of persons, last row is the witness. Then it starts again with the marriage date, as you spotted somewhere along the line , it appears to be at the bottom of the entry. We MUST remember that the date is always the entry above the names of the groom and bride. Phew . Lillian died in 1991 and Annie in 1993If these two died in Wrexham area, have you tried looking for an obituary. The Wrexham Leader on micro film goes up to past those dates. I know you probably remember them, but some info might come to light. What were their married names.
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Post by shedevil on Jul 13, 2008 3:11:41 GMT
Please don't whine about a service that is completely free. Im sorry but I cannot sit back and see you complain about my web site and in effect rip it apart. the data was compiled by me and is hosted for free with no funding from the hundreds of people that view the site on a regular basis. If you are not happy feel free to visit the A.N. Palmer centre and look through their archives Tracey
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 13, 2008 8:06:12 GMT
I'm sorry I upset you Tracey but I really wasn't whinning about your website - I was in no way trying to 'rip it apart' but just pointing out something that, rightly or wrongly, temporarily led me down a wrong path.
I really do think your webite is wonderful and it has helped me no end.
I appreciate the time you have spent putting it together and truely apologise if I have hurt your feelings - it really wasn't my intention.
Again, I am very sorry I made you feel this way.
Col
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Post by davies1974 on Jul 13, 2008 8:07:01 GMT
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Post by shedevil on Jul 13, 2008 11:39:20 GMT
Apology accepted maybe I was a bit hasty in my response but will try to rectify the problem as soon as possible. I do have a back up of the original file that has all the correct details
Tracey
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Post by vivien on Aug 5, 2008 13:07:06 GMT
thanks so much for the wern burials etc i had given up for a while but now have traced other children of ellis abraham and his wife jane (who i finf through the childrens baptisms to be a davies!) also have traced siblings of barbara but no record of her. she seems a lot older than the rest although docs show 1809 - do you think this could be an error and maybe 1819 ? i have some records from both wern and minera but am having trouble finding the marriages of the jones's born between circa 1833 and 1851 - lots of them any ideas/ thanks for all your help vivien baptiste
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Post by eluned on Aug 9, 2008 12:22:45 GMT
Vivien, Have you tried the North Wales BMD for the marriages? It may be difficult to identify particular Jones' for definate but may help you to narrow the search. It will tell you within which parish the marriage took place or if it was a civil one ie chapel/register office. I may be telling you something you have already tried, so I appologise if this is the case. If you have further details of these marriages, you could try posting them as a new topic, to see if anyone else can help further.
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Post by vivien on Aug 11, 2008 18:02:52 GMT
i have tried the wales bmd - the trouble is on alot of the family like many others went on to durham i have spent hours searching streets in the north east of england with heads and children nearly all the same names had a few lucky hits. was also sad to find that eliza davies from esclusham who married a john davies then a john hughes jones (later name was just hughes) had 4 boys by 2nd marriage. have been contacted by a relative of one of eliza's daughters , that they all joined the navy. being born in the 1890's my heart sunk as i had that feeling about the war. sure enough i found one edward hughes whose father was also from esclusham died and is named on a somme war memorial.he lived in newbiggin by sea which ties with all our later records. my conundrum really is that eliza was born john davies and marries a davies and moves to durham - she has 4 children 3 girls and a boy - and then the 4 more boys. by 1901 she is married to this john hughes(jones) shows he was from esclusham , although they married in north east england. i can't find if she divorced john davies or he if he died and what happened to him . can't find further trace of john hughes either - and its quite strange that although they were living in durham area - all 3 were born in esclusham area. perhaps john hughes was a family friend. anyway i got nowhere for months but have just had this information and there is an elderly relative up north who remembers most of it born 1918 - so maybe some questions will be answered. any other info however small appreciated. thanks vivien
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Post by annedw on Aug 12, 2008 12:55:57 GMT
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Post by eluned on Aug 12, 2008 17:19:36 GMT
Not just me then?! "my conundrum really is that eliza was born john davies" ;D I wanted to ask but didn't dare incase I caused offence!!!
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Post by dandalady on Nov 5, 2013 16:34:48 GMT
i know this is an old thread but Jo0hn and Elizabeth were my great great granparents. Robert born 1880 being my great grandfather. Going to closely read all the thread now.
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