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Post by curlew1 on Apr 21, 2009 22:49:23 GMT
Hello, I am new to this site - I found it while researching my Phennah family history.
My gg grandfather, Rev Thomas Phennah (1823-1907) was born at Adwy (christened at Adwy'r Clawdd Calvinistic Methodist Church) to Thomas Phennah (1788-1849), a tailor, and Ann Hughes (1790-1865), daughter of Hugh Hughes and Mary Davies (Adwy'r Clawdd).
As a child, Rev Thomas attended the school of Thomas Evans of Mwnglawdd, who was apparently a schoolmaster of remarkable ability - the school had an excellent reputation. He also attended the Adwy Calvinistic Methodist Church and, as part of a group led by Edward Rogers, started an English Sunday School and services at the Twenty Houses for the Englishmen working in the Mwnglawdd Lead Mines. At the age of 14, he was apprenticed to his uncle, Richard Hughes, in Wrexham (Hughes and Son).
I don't know any more than this about the Minera connection, so if anyone else does I'd love to hear from you!
Also, I am stuck at the moment on Thomas Phennah the tailor - I can't find a way to get further back. The relevant bit of the 1841 census appears to be one of the missing bits, so I don't know if he moved from Adwy. However, I am awaiting his death certificate, which will at least tell me where he died. Presumably, he would have served an apprenticeship in order to become a tailor, and he was referred to as a "tailor master" on his widow's death certificate - does this mean that he employed staff or apprentices? If so, are there any guild or trade records for the area that might provide some clues?
Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.
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Post by annedw on Apr 22, 2009 15:11:02 GMT
wrexham.minerahistory.com/1841_town_census.htmlThis site shows that there are Phennahs in Wrexham in 1841, shall we ask Llosgi for a look up, as you`re new to the site I`ll do it for you. bmd-cert-exch-site.ourwardfamily.com/deaths/deaths_p.htmI`m guessing this is Thomas `s wife , Ann. In the Slaters directory 1868 there is a Thomas Phennah , Vicarage Hill , bookbinder, bookseller and stationer. Nothing in any earlier directories. Also just in case you come across this , held at Ruthin Archives. Phennah doesn`t appear in these. Description: Wrexham parish registers of apprentices. Date: 1768 = 1828
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Post by curlew1 on Apr 22, 2009 16:04:33 GMT
Hi Annedw,
Thank you very much!
The 1868 Thomas is the Rev Thomas, my gg grandfather, and Ann is his mother (wife of Thomas the tailor). I got her death cert. from the bmd exchange site a few days ago.
Thomas the tailor's death cert arrived this morning and shows that he died at Adwy'r Clawdd on 27 August 1848 (not 1849, as I put above). What a shame there's nothing in the registers of apprentices. The surname can be a bit of a pain because I have found it as Phenna, Phenah, Fennah, Fenna and Fenner - it doesn't help!
Thanks again.
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Post by annedw on Apr 22, 2009 17:51:01 GMT
I really don`t know what to suggest here, but as they were Non Conformist this may be related to this family. They are Extracts ftom Palmer s History of Older Non Conformity in Wrexham. Dunno if it`s any use , but here goes. www.ebooksread.com/authors-eng/alfred-neobard-3n-palmer/a-history-of-the-older-nonconformity-of-wrexham-and-its-neibourhood--being-the--mla.shtmlOne of the other persons mentioned moved to Adwy Clawdd. It might be worth checking the Dissenters Graveyard MIs , and the Ruthin Road MIs. 13. Soon after Mr. Jenkins came hither (in November, 1747), the land in Chester Street on which the present Baptist Chapel stands, with much property adjoining, was purchased The following are the names of the trustees of the premises : , Richard ffennah, yeoman, of Brymbo ;" Richard ffennah held one of the farms called "Glascoed "; he was probably the son of Peter ffennah .
1. Peter Fenner, described in the Register as " of Plas Teg " [parish of Hope] : doubt- less the farming tenant of the Plas Teg land. Before the passing of the Act of Tnleratinv, the Rev. James ? was once preaching at "one Mr Fenner's in Hope parish" when the persecuting zealots broke in, and carried off the whole company to Mold. Mr. Owen and Mr. Fenner were committed to Caerwys jail, and the rest of the congregation bound over to appear at the Assizes.
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Post by curlew1 on Apr 22, 2009 22:36:58 GMT
Great extracts from The Older Nonconformity! (Plus another spelling to add to the list...) I'll definitely follow up on the graveyards, thanks for the suggestion.
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Post by annedw on Apr 23, 2009 16:21:10 GMT
I was in the Wrexham museum today and had a quick looksee for you. No MI`s in Ruthin Road cemetery, but there are some Phennahs in the Dissenters Graveyard, problem is there are no dates , just names. The History of Wrexham by Dodd, page 194 mentions Thomas and Robert Phennah as being involved in the Calvanistic Methodism in Wrexham. In the book `The Old Meeting`page 28 which is about Non Conformity from a very early time. it has an account of the Rev James Owen of Carmarthen preaching at the house of Thomas Phennah of Caergwrle, They were consighned to prison at Caerwys. This James Owen was a friend of a Philip Henry. There is no date for this and the assistant couldn`t work it out either. Maybe something will turn up. Trouble with Non Conformist is there are very few records
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Post by annedw on Apr 23, 2009 17:14:23 GMT
Just found this in the www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=2 marriage bonds. Fennah, Thomas, bach., yeoman, Hope, Flintshire to Lewis, Anne, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1759 Feb. 8. There are more Fennahs , but all female, also some Fennah Wills.c 1800s. Also on another site crimenotes.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/thesis.pdf There is mention of a Samuel Fennah of Hope in 1692. I know this isn`t what you are looking for at the moment, but it does seem to be that Phennahs/ Fennahs were around that area, and certainly Non Conformist.
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Post by jojo on Apr 24, 2009 2:52:11 GMT
Just found this in the www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=2 marriage bonds. Fennah, Thomas, bach., yeoman, Hope, Flintshire to Lewis, Anne, sp., Wrexham, Denbighshire : 1759 Feb. 8. Just to confirm that the marriage above is recorded in the Wrexham St. Giles transcripts. The witnesses were William PUGH (x) and John Edwards (prob. church official as this name is recorded as witness on most marriages at this time). There is also a baptism for Thomas FENNAH, Jan 20, 1760 (b: 16), s/o Thomas (Yemon) of Bry, and a Martha FENNAH, Jan 21, 1762 (b: 7), d/o Thomas (lab) of Bry
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Post by jojo on Apr 24, 2009 3:05:17 GMT
The only baptism I can see at Wrexham c1788 is this one
Oct 12, 1788 (born Aug 19) FENNA, Thos & Martha, Twins, father Thos., mother Martha, occ Labr., abode S. (abbr. for Stansty according to index)
On looking through the various Wrexham PR transcripts I have there were several Fenna, Fennah, FFenna, Phenna/h events recorded going back to 17th century. Well worth more research prior to the family being non-c.
Heather
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Post by curlew1 on Apr 24, 2009 10:22:17 GMT
Annedw and Heather, thank you so much, that's brilliant. Going back to Thomas Evans and his school, I found a couple of refs: 1. Welsh Biography Online has an entry for Peter Maelor Evans, publisher, born 10 April 1817 near Adwy'r Clawdd, where his father, Thomas Evans, was a schoolmaster till he forsook teaching to manage lead mines. Peter received his early education at his father's school. yba.llgc.org.uk 2. An account of the flood at Penrtre'r Fron, Coedpoeth, on 27 September 1819 was recorded in Welsh by Thomas Evans of Adwy, Coedpoeth, in Goleuad Gwynedd, Nov. 1918. (Now translated in "Coedpoeth as it Was", I think. )
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Post by annedw on May 13, 2009 17:16:18 GMT
Just found this, but you know of him already The Wrexham Recorder Vol.1. No. 7. September 1848 On the 28th ult., at Adwy'r Clawdd, Mr. THOMAS PHENNAH, aged 60.
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Post by curlew1 on May 17, 2009 13:56:52 GMT
Yes, I do, but thanks for keeping your eyes open!
I don't want to push my luck but when you looked at the Wrexham Register of Apprentices, did you just look for Phennah? I only ask because it wasn't until you reported a nil return that I thought to mention the variant spellings - might there be something under one of the F variants?
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Post by annedw on May 17, 2009 14:21:07 GMT
I didn`t actually look at them mysef. I phoned the Archives in Ruthin and they did a quick looksee for Phennah. After a half an hour search you have to pay , so it might be worth you calling them again. Number is 01824 708250
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Post by curlew1 on May 17, 2009 16:51:10 GMT
Many thanks, Annedw, I'll do that.
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Post by annedw on May 17, 2009 17:07:15 GMT
I`ve just been looking at 19th C newspapers, there are many mentions of Thomas, Robert Phennah and others that may be their cjhildren as late as 1900, including what seems to be a marriage in 1864 of TP to Miss Brade daughter of James Brade. Problem is, most of these are in a Welsh paper. There`s also a Mary Phennah of Caergwrle aged 72 in 1853 who stole 9lb cheese from the Talbot Inn and clogs from Mrs Liptrot`s shop in the Town Hall. OOOOOOOOOh the shame of it is she your skeleton in the cupboard ;D Have sent a PM
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Post by curlew1 on May 18, 2009 10:05:06 GMT
Couldn't stop laughing! I'm rather partial to cheese myself... Seriously, I'd love to see the newspaper reports, please - I speak a bit of Welsh but have plenty of native Welsh speaking friends here (mid Wales). I'll reply to your PM.
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Post by annedw on May 25, 2009 15:32:37 GMT
Phennahs in the Wrexham Directory 1886 Thomas Phennah, registrar of marriages, College Street. Ellen Phennah ,26 Fairfield Street, Wrexham, James Phennah, rate collector, 9 Trevor St. Richard Phennah, sanitary inspector, Temple Chambers . ;D ;D ;D ( very apt address ) Thomas Phennah, painter and decorator,College St and Sationary and fancy goods, 14a Townhill,
Richard Phennah, Woodlands, Chester St. Thomas Phennah, 11 Trevor St.
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Post by annedw on May 25, 2009 17:20:47 GMT
This is copied from the 1841 census look up thread on the Gummows. I can't connect Thomas and William either! Interesting post from Annedw, though, because I had concluded that this William was born in Bersham in 1888 to Abraham, a coal mine stoker, and Amelia (nee Edwards). Their address on the 1891 census transcript is Ddol Hill, Bersham, Adwy. William and Ethel married in June 1920 (Wrexham civil marriage). Abraham was born in 1866 in Hope to John and Sarah (nee George) Phennah, who were also both born in Hope, in 1831 and 1832 RG11; Piece: 3567; Folio: 33; Page: 25 In 1881 this Abraham living with his parents and a younger brother Jacob. John Phennah 50 Sarah Phennah 49 Abraham Phennah 15 Sarah Phennah 15 Ann Phennah 11 Harriet Phennah 6 Jacob Phennah 2 I found Jacobs Miltary Records. It`s the only one for a Phennah. He joined the RWF. His religion was Weslyan, and married Mary Williams at the Register Office in Wrexham on 19/10/1903. They had children Walter 19/04/1904 Trevor 19/06/1906 John Emlyn 11/04/1908 Gwen 26/08/1910 Marian 19/09/1912 Thomas 02/08/1914. An address is given for Mary Phennah , 9 Greenfield, Rhosddu , Wrexham. Is this helpful to you ,
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Post by curlew1 on May 27, 2009 0:25:44 GMT
Hi Annedw, I just spent ages putting together a detailed reply to your latest posts and when I hit "post reply" the website had dumped my login - I lost the lot. Will try again later.
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Post by curlew1 on May 27, 2009 2:24:20 GMT
Trying again - fingers crossed! Thanks for all the excellent information.
1. I rang Ruthin Archives about the Wrexham Register of Apprentices last week - very helpful lady but sadly no Thomas Fenna(h) either. Is there an equivalent register for Flintshire?
2. Eleanor Brade married Richard Phennah (Rev Thomas' brother) in 1864. She died in 1884 and Richard married again (Jane Jones). He and Jane are on the 1891 census.
3. Mary Phennah, the cheese-and-clog-thief, is a mystery! Given her age as quoted in the newspaper report, she would have been born around 1781 but I can't find a likely Phennah birth. Perhaps she was the wife/widow of a Phennah, in which case I have some serious hunting to do. I don't think that she can be in my direct line (no skeletons in my cupboard!).
4. The Phennahs in the 1886 directory are all mine. Thomas (Rev - ordained 1881) and Ellen are my gg grandparents. He was a painter and decorator, bookbinder, stationer and registrar of marriages. Richard, Thomas' brother, was a builder before becoming Rural Sanitary Inspector (perhaps he wanted to make pots of money). James, Thomas' son, is my g grandfather - sadly, he died before his father. I have accounts of both their funerals from Wrexham newspapers.
5. The information about Abraham's family is very interesting, although I am still looking for the link with my lot. I didn't know about Harriet and Jacob and it's great to have all the extra info about his family and military service.
6. The C19 online newspapers facility is brilliant! I found a marriage notice 22.10.1887 for Abraham Phennah and Jane Price, both from Buckley Mountain. They appear on the 1891 census (his name is given as Abram) at the Old Store Yard, Buckley Road, Mold, with their children Thomas (2) and Florence (6 mths). Another line to investigate!
Sorry to have taken a while to reply fully to your posts but unfortunately I have to allow work to intrude occasionally - very inconvenient! Thanks for all your help.
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Post by eluned on May 27, 2009 7:24:38 GMT
Hi Annedw, I just spent ages putting together a detailed reply to your latest posts and when I hit "post reply" the website had dumped my login - I lost the lot. Will try again later. Hi Just incase you or anyone else should have this problem again in the future. Hit the back button, cut your message, then log in. You can now paste the message which means all your hard work wasn't lost. Eluned
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Post by curlew1 on May 27, 2009 9:45:01 GMT
Thanks, Eluned, I'll remember that if it happens again. Cheers.
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Post by annedw on Jul 24, 2009 10:38:51 GMT
I`m doing some work with Penygelli School and came up with this. James was the son of Thomas the stationer,
Mary Dall
Mary was born about 1856 in Slamanan, Stirlingshire. She was the daughter of William C and Margaret Dall, William was employed as a Goods clerk for the Railways. Mary moved to Wales and was engaged as the Schoolmistress at the Penygell Girls School. In the autumn of 1881 she married James Phennah, the son of Thomas and Ellen Phennah who lived in Wrexham. Mary gave up her teaching and in late 1890 she had a daughter Evelyn. James died in 1899 and in 1904 Mary married again to Algernon Snell. Mary died in Cheltenham aged 81 and is buried with her first husband James Phennah in Wrexham cemetery.
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Post by curlew1 on Jul 24, 2009 11:41:48 GMT
Spot on, Annedw!
James and Mary are my great-grandparents - after having Evelyn, they had Reginald James, who is my grandfather. It's great to have this detail about Mary because I knew next to nothing about her, not even that she was born in Scotland, although I do have a tiny photo of her.
When my parents were researching a few years ago, they made several visits to Wrexham and I have some photos they took in Wrexham cemetery. One of them is puzzling me. What I can make out is
In Loving Memory of JAMES PHENNAH (unreadable line) Who fell asleep (unreadable) and a year which certainly doesn't look like 1899 Aged (unreadable) years (Another unreadable line)
Also MARY (unreadable) above, Who fell asleep Dec 2 (unreadable) aged 81 years.
I suppose it has to be them but that year for James looks more like 1829 than 1899. It will just have to remain a mystery unless I can get there to have a look myself!
Thanks again.
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Post by annedw on Jul 24, 2009 14:39:52 GMT
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Post by annedw on Jul 24, 2009 14:58:56 GMT
Found a bit more on Mary. (image info is for my benefit) image 107 130 161 167 14th Dec 1877. The present headmistress of Penygelli girls school writes that she is resigning her post and her succesor after the Xmas Break will be Mary Dall, the present mistress of Tabor Hill Infants School. Also Maggie Dall, May`s sister takes her pllce while she is off sick. Therefore Maggie was in the area.
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Post by curlew1 on Jul 24, 2009 15:34:30 GMT
Terrific, thank you.
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Post by lynhope on Dec 28, 2011 11:11:01 GMT
Hi there - the Abraham and Amelia Phennah you found are my great grandparents. I think we connect somewhere along the line, but a long way back. are you still looking?
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Post by Emlyn Phennah on Feb 22, 2012 19:16:33 GMT
Hi I have just found the site I am the grand son of Jacob and Mary My dad was John Emlyn. J&M also had 2 other sons Alun and Brynmawr, Alun is buried in East africa and Bryn was buried at sea in 1941. I have traced, with the help of a cousin from US, the family tree back to the 1600's. We hail From Mynydd Issa the south side of Hope Mountain. contact me on 07720457993, If you would like to know more I also have a Family Bible in Cymraeg.
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Post by lb on Jul 16, 2012 11:17:21 GMT
You might be interested to know that I have found some depositions given by a William ffennah of Uwchmynydd township (i.e. the area of Mynydd Issa) in a 1690 legal case regarding some land belonging to a neighbour (and relative). He says he is over 60 at the time, so he would have been born before 1630. He was described as a butcher, and in the course of his evidence gives quite a bit of information about his family. A William ffennah "the younger" gives evidence in the same case.
I've also seen entries for both Peter and Richard ffennah, of Glascoed (the bit of Brymbo more or less adjacent to Uwchmynydd), in the rate books of the early-mid 18th century. Richard is presumably the Nonconformist mentioned above. There is also a "Benjamin ffennah" living close by at the same time, and who appears in the rate books for a very long period (unless there were two Benjamin ffennahs, of course).
I'm not sure what the exact connection between these men and the 17th-century William ffennah of Uwchmynydd was, but I'm pretty sure there was one.
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