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Post by mac on Jul 4, 2009 20:26:47 GMT
Looking for help:- My 2x great Grandfather, William Price on the 1891 census for Hulme Manchester states that he was born in"Bersham Denbyshire" that he is 45 and on his wedding certificate his father's name is also William Price occupation, gardener. I have some leads to this William Price but cannot say which lead is the correct one to follow and wondered if anyone had any ideas exactly where I could find the relevant information about this family such as a birth certificate. I still think that there must be relatives in Wales as my 2x great grandfather's daughter was still in contact with relative up to the 1960's but on her death all contact would appear to have ceased.
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2009 8:50:54 GMT
Hi Mac, Welcome to the site Just need to confirm that this is the one you found?! 1891 Lancashire,Chorlton on MedlockRG12/3187, f.37, pg.7 William Price H M 45 gen lab. b.Beaham, Denbighshire Hannah " W M 44 b.Manchester William R " son 16 gen lab b.Manchester Ada " daur 14 b." Mary A " daur 12 b." Lean " daur 4 b." Hannah " daur 2 b." When I began searching for William senior, gardener, I seem to recall doing this search previously, but don't seem to be able to find the correct thread Could you possibly let us know when/where he was married and if he was a bachelor please? MODIFIED to add William's age
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Post by eluned on Jul 5, 2009 17:12:42 GMT
1851 Esclusham BelowRhostyllen HO107/2503, f.388, pg.12 William Price H M 52 gardener b.Wrexham Mary " wife 51 b." Joseph " son 19 apprentice joiner b." William " son 8 b."Sarah " daur 4 b." This is the only William I can find in the area that seems to fit.
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Post by mac on Jul 7, 2009 8:44:52 GMT
Hello, Thanks for your reply. The 1891 Census for Chorlton -on-Medlock is the correct family and the reference which I have also is the one for Eschlusham Below. My grandfather was 57 on his death certificate 4th January 1903 which could mean that he was 58 in 1903 thus making his birth circa 1845, obviously 1844 if born 1-4th January. I know that this is very close to the 8 year old in 1851 but all the ages he gives are compatible with being born 1845. However I have been trying to find a birth certificate to prove the connection or a baptism and wondered if you could suggest where I might look. William and Hannah were married in the C.Of E church as would probably have been necesssary at the time-1872 but in later years the family appear to have attended congregational churches. A witness to their wedding was a Mary Ann Roberts, wondered if she was also from the same area as William? Sound as bit 'picky' on my part but we have already gone down the wrong routes before so I want to be certain this time that we are folllowing the right one.
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Post by eluned on Jul 7, 2009 9:58:08 GMT
Hi Mac, I totally agree. No point doing your family tree if you find yourself climbing someone elses ;D I wouldn't worry too much about the age at death as this would have been given by someone who may or may not have known his actual age You may also like to consider that details given on marriage certificates aren't always true I have come across instances where rellies have tried to cover up illegitimacies or gild the lilly Ages are often "out" by a couple of years or so which all makes finding a connection difficult It is possible that his birth wasn't registered at all as until 1874 it was up to the registrar to collect the information and many weren't registered. Wrexham register office would do a search for for a birth certificate. www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/life_events/bereavement/register_office.htmYou could state that his father was William and a gardener and the certificate would not be sent unless this info was correct. You can search for his birth for free on this site www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/bmd_welcome.htmlYou say "we have already gone down the wrong routes before", may a ask was it with William and if so which family had you previously linked him too please? This info may also prove useful in the search
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Post by annedw on Jul 7, 2009 17:36:54 GMT
Is it William junior you are looking for, if so you have a good choice here. Perhaps a phone call to the Wrexham register office with the details you are certain of might help find the correct one, Free BMD Births Jun 1844 Price William Wrexham 27 291 Births Sep 1844 Price William Wrexham 27 285 Births Dec 1844 PRICE William Wrexham 27 253 Births Dec 1845 Price William Wrexham 27 249 Births Mar 1846 Price William Wrexham 27 270 Births Dec 1846 Price William Wrexham 27 269
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Post by mac on Jul 8, 2009 14:41:54 GMT
Many thanks for replies, it's good to get a response as many of my efforts on other branches of the family have aroused not a peep!. I'll try and find the information we had about the first of the wrong routes which an aunt got as the result of a very nice gent looking for her but we ended up with a great family tree that had it's routes in Shropshire via Wrexham. The William who had a son Joseph etc is the one another aunt decided was the correct one but she wasn't interested in going any further back and I'll have to ask but think another relative made enquiries in Wrexham register office but they came to the conclusion that none of them fitted what information we had. That's why I'd thought of the baptism route if I could even locate the ones of William married to Mary Jackson with sons Joseph, William etc. I am of the opinion that too much credence is being given to the 'gardener' part as I could claim the William Price who was deaf working at Erddigg, as mine as the dates would fit, but all the information they had was that he had a helpful wife and son but no names given!William could have had another occupation and at the time of William in M/C marriage he was a gardener as the M/C William didn't have a trade initally he went to work for Dunlops the rubber manufacturers.Only good point is that the family were literate all obvioulsy different had writing on the wedding certificate and no 'her or his mark'. which usually stand in good stead for some kind of accuracy. Will check what I have so far. Agian thanks for help as any suggestions are more than welcome
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Post by eluned on Jul 8, 2009 14:54:13 GMT
Many thanks for replies, it's good to get a response as many of my efforts on other branches of the family have aroused not a peep!. Hi Mac, Perhaps you should post them on here! You say you would be interested in baptisms of the children to William to Mary Jackson, which family is this please? Is it the ones I found in 1851 Rhostyllen? If not, could you post some details for us please? "I am of the opinion that too much credence is being given to the 'gardener' part as I could claim the William Price who was deaf working at Erddigg, as mine as the dates would fit, but all the information they had was that he had a helpful wife and son but no names given!"What further details have you on this William and what sources are they from please? Cheers
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Post by annedw on Jul 8, 2009 19:25:44 GMT
Shall we work backwards on this if you are sure these are the right ones. Shame we don`t have Williams occupation, especially as he has a servant.
1881 RG11; Piece: 3924; Folio: 24; Page: 4 64 Wilmott Street, Hulme. Lancs. William Price 36 ( no occupation entered ) b Wrexham Hannah Price 35 b Manchester William R. Price 7 son b " Mary A. Price 3 dau b " Harriett Potter 14 general servant b "
1871 RG10; Piece: 5655; Folio: 69; Page: 20 Bersham Ddol, Bersham ( seems she is living on her own) Mary Price head wid 70 b Clutton
This looks like the same William, it`s getting a bit confusing though. 1861 RG9; Piece: 4285; Folio: 59; Page: 32; . Pentre, Hafod Y Bwch. Esclusham below William Price 61 ag lab b Adwy Clawdd Mary Price 60 b Clutton Cheshire. William Price 17 b Rhostyllen
1851 - we already have the family in Esclusham 1851 HO107/2503, f.388, pg.12 Esclusham Below Rhostyllen William Price H M 52 gardener b.Wrexham Mary " wife 51 b." Joseph " son 19 apprentice joiner b." William " son 8 b." Sarah " daur 4 b."
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Post by annedw on Jul 9, 2009 7:55:19 GMT
I`m still hoping we have the correct family, and this might be Joseph in 1861. if it is at least we know some of the family moved from Wrexham 1861RG9; Piece: 2736; Folio: 92; Page: 25; 1 Rock Mount, Southside , West Derby. Joseph Price 30 joiner b Wrexham Mary Price 24 wife b Wavertree Lancs. Joseph Riley 51 unm labourer b Wrexham ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Have we struck GOLD, even though I think whoever entered the details got some wrong. At least they are in the right area for William to have moved to. 1871RG10; Piece: 3993; Folio: 131; Page: 27 11 Carver Street, Chorlton upon Medlock Joseph Price 40 joiner b Wrexham Mary Price 36 b Wrexham William Price son 11 b Wrexham Charles Price 25 son lab b Wrexham Thomas Jones lodger 17 clerk b Merionethshire. Have we got them again 1881 RG11; Piece: 4013; Folio: 93; Page: 4; 23 Sycamore Streeet, Newton Heath, Manchester. Joseph Price 53 joiner b Rhostyllen Wrexham Mary Price 49 b Wrexham I `m 99% certain now that this is the same Joseph from 1851. Have you go the full details of William and Hannah`s marriage. Was she Hannah Coates married Chorlton Sept qtr 1872 ? It would seem that William the father was deceased by then , if Mary is a widow in 1871. How have you got the name Mary Jackson for William and Josephs mother.?
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Post by eluned on Jul 9, 2009 8:20:14 GMT
Well done you... if at first etc..... Wouldn't it be great to have Joseph, or even another relative, as a witness at William jnr wedding to Hannah. Perhaps mac could let us know the names of witnesses
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Post by mac on Jul 12, 2009 17:34:53 GMT
Hello and many thanks this is looking really good---- but unfortunatley the two witnesses at William and Hannah's wedding were Mary Ann Roberts and James Chadwick Coates- the latter obviously Hannh's brother the former I know not! I have found a Mary Ann Roberts on the 1871 census for St. George's Hulme Manchester(RG10/3998) at 202 Stretford Road -Wellington Hotel. Head:- Father Jonah Roberts 56 Licensed Victualler from Llangollen Denbishire Mary Ann Roberts :- daught.29 Barmaid Llanoysilly(?) Parish Denbyshire. Elizabeth Bennion/ Bannion:- visitor married 74 Retired Farmer's wife LLanalmond Denbyshire Richard Bennion/Bannion visitor 77 Retired farmer LLanalmond Denbyshire. (Think the spellings could be incorrect.) There are two domestic servants but one from Liverpool and second from Dublin. It's the area of Manchester in which William and Hannah lived so could be one and the same Mary Ann Roberts. The information from Erddigg was given to me at Erddig, the only record they had was what had been written down by one of the owners about the photographs of the staff. I tried there on the notion of the Gardener, though often there were gardeners for other than estates. There were two William Price's who were gardeners but the later one was the Head Gardener and he isn't the right person as he came at a later date-but the deaf one I suppose is a possibility. Only other 'heresay' information is that one aunt remembers her great aunt talking about a Megan Jones and 'The farm' up to the 1960's when she still wrote to family/ cousins in Wales and food parcels were sent from 'the farm' , not sure when that stopped. Unfortunately Megan Jones sound a very common name I would have thought. Also do not know if maiden name of married name. We found a Joseph Price on the 1841 census(poor copy) so age looks like 10 yrs. at Langollen township Bachu/Baclu a joiners ? Ho 107/1400/8 page 13 We have also the birth certificate for William Price 1843 at Rhos-tullen Esclusham Below whose mother is given as Mary Jackson- and the aunt who was happy with this as our William sent for birth cert. Think that's about the sum total of my knowledge but what you have got so far I can relate to the aunt who is keen to get as far back as possible. She'll be pleased that at least you seem to have uncoveres relevant information after the brick wall, so will say thanks on her behalf.
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Post by eluned on Jul 12, 2009 18:35:37 GMT
Bache,Llangollen HO107/1400 Book.8, E.D. 8, f.13, pg.4 Pentre Morgan Robert Edwards 15 wheelwright j. born in county No Thomas Evans 30 joiner yes Mary Evans 30 yes Robert Evans 5 yes Elizabeth Evans 5 yes Elinor Evans 2 yes Joseph Price 10 joiner a.p No (? a.p apprentice) Appear to be lodging with Robert Evans & family wheelwright
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Post by eluned on Jul 12, 2009 18:52:18 GMT
Hello mac. Just wanting to confirm a couple of things please. "The information from Erddigg was given to me at Erddig, the only record they had was what had been written down by one of the owners about the photographs of the staff. I tried there on the notion of the Gardener, though often there were gardeners for other than estates. There were two William Price's who were gardeners but the later one was the Head Gardener and he isn't the right person as he came at a later date-but the deaf one I suppose is a possibility."Was this William Jnr? so was he also a gardener? "We have also the birth certificate for William Price 1843 at Rhos-tullen Esclusham Below whose mother is given as Mary Jackson- and the aunt who was happy with this as our William sent for birth cert."Is this William's father still a William Price and a gardener? Where were they living at the time of his birth please? Sorry to ask so many questions mac Eluned
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Post by eluned on Jul 12, 2009 19:30:11 GMT
IGI William Price marr Mary Jackson, 11 NOV 1821, Wrexham
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Post by mac on Jul 13, 2009 15:47:19 GMT
William Price at Erddigg would be William senior as my 2xgrt grandfather was the one born circa 1845. I think the Birth cert for William in 1843 the father is listed as gardener that is why the aunt who was happy to stop at this point accepted that this was the line. The Joseph aged 10 could be correct as I suppose in 1851, 10 was a reasonable age to be apprenticed. I wasn't supposed to be researching this branch of the family and it appears to have arrived on my desk-so to speak, hence confusion in one or two places. Many thanks for information to date.
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Post by mac on Jul 13, 2009 20:17:53 GMT
Hello, Re the information sent about Joseph Price. I discovered on the Family History site a Joseph Price baptised by aWilliam Price and Mary Jenkin at the Independent Rhosllanerchrugog on Jan 12th 1830 born October 26th 1829. I wonder if this is any connection and perhaps since seems to be a gap from Joseph to William and Sarah his sister if this is first wife and Mary Jackson second wife. The reason that this possibility is that a great aunt mentioned the family coming from a place where there was a famous choir! She thought it was Rhosllanerchrugog-Any thoughts? I noted it but as this aunt thought her mother's side came from Motherwell and we have yet to discover when- it lays a crumb of doubt.
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Post by mac on Jul 13, 2009 20:20:46 GMT
Sorry just realised that MAry JAckson married William Price 1821 so that won't work if Joseph born 1829. I seem to think this is where things went pear-shaoed last time when aunts looking for information.
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Post by eluned on Jul 13, 2009 21:04:11 GMT
IGI William Price marr Mary Jackson, 11 NOV 1821, Wrexham I posted this marriage because you mentioned Mary Jackson, it may not be the one you are looking for I see Rhos Independant chapel baptisms 1810-1837 are at the Denbighshire RO, the originals may provide extra information that isn't given on the IGI.
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Post by annedw on Jul 21, 2009 11:47:34 GMT
Baptisms from 1789 to 1800 in Wrexham parish. William Price baptized in Wrexham on September 10th 1800 who was born July 2, 1800. His parents are Robert and Frances, Robert is listed as a potter, and this family is from Wrexham Abbot This seems to be the only one that fits the date, but doesn`t really seem to be the right one. Maybe the family were non conformist. There was a James Price a gardener also born Adwy`r Clawdd in the census, also with a son called William. he doesn`t appear in the PRs either.
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