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Post by ronniemason on Sept 9, 2009 12:37:26 GMT
Hello everyone. John Mason and Mary Chaloner are my Gt.Gt Grandparents. Their Marriage cert (17/12/1841) shows that Mary's father was an Agent living in Minera and that his name is Joseph. Her mother was Sarah Chaloner and it is this side that I am interested in researching at the moment. I would be most grateful if I could get some help here as I am quite new to family history research.
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Post by jojo on Sept 9, 2009 15:14:51 GMT
Hi Ronnie Welcome to the Minera history site I found this marriage at Wrexham St. Giles Dec 30, 1805 Joseph CHALONER, otp & Sarah PHENIX (x) witnesses Elizabeth Lloyd (x) & James Jones HTH Heather
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Post by eluned on Sept 9, 2009 17:06:14 GMT
Hi ronniemason and welcome Baptism May 17 1807 Minera Elizabeth Chaloner (b.7) to Joseph, massheenman, & Sarah MN. Pheniex, Minera eluned
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Post by eluned on Sept 9, 2009 17:10:57 GMT
This is a very useful site for the more unusual Names Of Clwyd. www.namesfromclwyd.org.uk/The numbers refer to booklets produced by the Clwyd FHS and there is a key at the top of the page.
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Post by annedw on Sept 9, 2009 17:46:52 GMT
Hi Ronnie, I think there is quite a lot about various Chaloners on the site already. It looks as if these could be yours. ;D .
MACHINE HOUSE The Machine House is shown on the 1845 tithe map of Minera, and is on land owned by John Burton Esquire, it is recognized as plot 292, described as a `house and garden` and is occupied by Joseph Chaloner, who is also the occupier of Tyr Celyn, which is also described as a house and garden. In 1841 a report was taken of the Working Conditions in Collieries, and a Joseph Chaloner is described as being a coal weigher at Plas Mostyn Colliery so presumably this would confirm that the Machine House was originally part of the Colliery Buildings. There are deeds of sale dated 1838 relating to Plas Mostyn Colliery, these are held at Ruthin Archives. Does this indicate that part of the colliery was sold off, and that this is when the Machine House became a dwelling place ?
In 1851 the occupants are Joseph Chaloner a widower, aged 75 clerk b about 1779, he was married presumably before 1809 and the birth of Ellinor to Sarah Phoenix, but she had died before 1851. The members of the household were --- Joseph Chaloner a widower, aged 75 clerk b about 1779, born Wrexham Ellinor unmarried daughter age 42 b Wrexham Maria “ age 33 b “ Anne “ age 24 b “ William Boyd, lodger age 29 born Cemais,Near Machynlleth, Montgomeryshire Minister at the Wern Independant Chapel Sarah Moss a servant age 16
It seems therefore that Joseph and his family were Non- conformist and they had a link with Wern Chapel .
All these of Joseph `s children were christened at Wern. His wife was Sarah Phoenix. Maria born 10 Jan 1813 chr 30 Jan 1813 Joseph born 10 April 1815 chr 14 May 1815 Joseph married Cornelia Bennett. in a civil marriage in 1845, Mary Ann born 24 Nov 1817 chr 7 Dec 1817 Sarah born 7 May 1822 chr 5 June 1822 Thomas born 9 May 1824. Ann born 5 May 1826 chr 3 June 1826
RECORDS FOR WERN START 1808 In the Wern Chapel Graveyard register are the following entries, these are names of people that bought plots, but there are no dates and no information on who was buried in them. Cornelia Chaloner (wife of Joseph) of Pentre Fron RH side of path Row 5 grave 3 William Challoner, Minera. LH side of path Row 15 grave 17
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Post by tominera on Sept 9, 2009 17:57:36 GMT
Hi, There are 9 baptisms in Wern Chapel between 1809 and 1826 all to children of Joseph Chaloner a Clerk(Agent poss.) and Sarah--She does have 3 different surnames but he may have had more than one wife or it is a different Joseph---There is a Mary born 28 4 1920 in Minera and bapt 21 5 1920 who could be your Mary---Good Luck Tom
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Post by eluned on Sept 9, 2009 18:07:05 GMT
This is a link to Denbighshire record office at Ruthin. The personal names index contains references to Challoners. www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en-gb/DNAP-78GL8LThis one may be of interest ;D Joseph Challoner, Miner, Minera 1857 DD/WY/1445
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 9, 2009 18:07:52 GMT
Well... what can I say? Thank you all very much indeed for your help so far. I had suspected that the Sarah Phoenix mentioned in the previous post was the one I was after, I had seen that previously. I have done some calculations and it would seem that we have identified Sarah, with the exception of there being a 4-5 year discrepancy in the age of her father ( 1st line second paragraph of previous post ). I am so pleased! Hello Gt Gt grandmother!! Is there a chance of obtaining some sort of marriage certificate? Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Sept 9, 2009 18:19:18 GMT
Hi Marriages before 1813 tend to have limited information and I presume that looking at the original record in the Wrexham St Giles Marriage register wont give you any more info, but may be of interest anyway. I am sure you can obtain a microfilm copy from the A. N. Palmer Centre, in Wrexham. www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/heritage/archives/index.htmeluned
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Post by tominera on Sept 9, 2009 18:49:59 GMT
Hi, I have pics of Josephs Headstone ---also Sarah----and one of Ellenor Challoner (3 in all) but the condition of the stones and the inscriptions make them all very difficult to read with any certainty-- They are Ellenor daughter of Joseph and died 10 9 1851 aged (posssibly 42 yrs) also another name almost unreadable ?a?ia died ?/9/1860 poss aged 17 yrs-----On Josephs headstone all I can read positively died 1858 aged 82 yrs but you would definitely be able to get more with a visit-------the other headstone which is in really bad condition and is disintegrating badly Sarah wife of Joseph Chaloner died 10/7/18?? aged 44 yrs You are welcome to a copy of the pics if you send me a PM with E.mail addr. Tom
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Post by annedw on Sept 9, 2009 19:45:28 GMT
Machine House , about 1905, it is still standing. Attachments:
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Post by annedw on Sept 9, 2009 19:47:04 GMT
Same house as it is today, or at least about 3 years ago when Itook the photo. Attachments:
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 9, 2009 19:56:41 GMT
Sorry, I am trying to take all this in, and when I have studied it all I will respond in an appropriate fashion, Thank you all so much Ronnie
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Post by tominera on Sept 9, 2009 20:06:31 GMT
Nice Pics! Lots more info in Wern Burials thanks to Annette-- Sarah Chaloner(wife) d.10 7 1826 aged 44yrs bur 13 7 1826 Eleanor Chaloner (dau) d.10 9 1851 aged 42 yrs 5 months &11 days bur 13 9 1851 Maria Chaloner(dau)d.15 9 1860 aged 47 bur 18 9 1860 Cornelia Chaloner(widow) d.26 9 1861 aged 50 yrs bur 1 10 1861 Joseph Chaloner d. 18 7 1858 aged 82 yrs 11 mths bur 21 7 1858
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Post by jojo on Sept 10, 2009 1:32:33 GMT
Hi Marriages before 1813 tend to have limited information and I presume that looking at the original record in the Wrexham St Giles Marriage register wont give you any more info, but may be of interest anyway. I am sure you can obtain a microfilm copy from the A. N. Palmer Centre, in Wrexham. www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/heritage/archives/index.htmeluned Except in this instance the transcript appears to indicate that Joseph signed the register so well worth the five pounds or so outlay for a photocopy of the entry in the marriage register
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Post by jojo on Sept 10, 2009 2:12:41 GMT
Hi Ronnie From Minera Bishops Transcripts Feb 13, 1774 CHALONER, Edward, s/o John (clerk) Minera March 21 1776 (born 18) CHALONER, Joseph s/o John (clerk) Brombo Jan 4, 1778 (born Dec 27) CHALONER, Sarah s/o John (clerk) Minera Jan 1, 1780 (born Dec 3) CHALONER, Elinor d/o John (clerk) Bersham ****Aug 3, 1781 (born Jun 25 baptized at Wrexham church) CHALONER, Anna Maria d/o John (gatekeeper) Adwyr Clawdd Apr 25, 1783 (born 23) CHALONER, William s/o John (gatekeeper) Bersham **** This one is also recorded at St. Giles on the same date but the birth date is given as Dec 5 and the surname is transcribed as CHANLOR. Many entries in the original PRs are very hard to read so checking out the originals is always recommended if possible.Another possible sibling of Joseph is listed at Wrexham which may indicate his mother's name Apr 16, 1785 (born 10) CHALONER, Hannah, d/o John & Ellin, abode Ber.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 10, 2009 7:51:18 GMT
Hello Heather, Thanks for that. I'm just slightly in the dark here! Would this be an pointer toward Joseph Chalenor's possible father? And yes.. I will most certainly obtain a copy of the birth register as you suggest.
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Post by eluned on Sept 10, 2009 8:26:41 GMT
Hello Heather, Thanks for that. I'm just slightly in the dark here! Would this be an pointer toward Joseph Chalenor's possible father? And yes.. I will most certainly obtain a copy of the birth register as you suggest. Hi Ronniemason, "March 21 1776 (born 18) CHALONER, Joseph s/o John (clerk) Brombo" This baptism given by Heather may very well be the one you are after and she has very kindly also given other baptisms of any children to a John. The marriage entry will not show his father's name, sorry. but as Heather suggests you will see his signature. I didn't notice the lack of the X eluned
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 10, 2009 10:50:41 GMT
Thanks Eluned Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Sept 11, 2009 11:54:53 GMT
Hi, There are 9 baptisms in Wern Chapel between 1809 and 1826 all to children of Joseph Chaloner a Clerk(Agent poss.) and Sarah--She does have 3 different surnames but he may have had more than one wife or it is a different Joseph---There is a Mary born 28 4 1920 in Minera and bapt 21 5 1920 who could be your Mary---Good Luck Tom Hi Ronnie Just noticed Tom's typos. For the full list of baptisms including details of the different surnames mentioned by Tom, have a look at the online transcription at this link. www.the-red-zone.co.uk/about.html#For the Wern Chapel baptisms, choose the baptism link at the top of the page and then scroll down to the bottom to locate the various baptism locations.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 11, 2009 19:36:57 GMT
Thanks eluned. I had suspicions that I had too many Chaloners involved so I was in the process of mapping it all out. You have all been so wonderful. I just need to sift all this information and make some sense of it all. We will get there before moving on to the Mason side. Thanks to all.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 12, 2009 16:17:36 GMT
;DI have great pleasure in introducing you to Joseph. John. Mason (1847-1914) b. Wrexham. Son of John Mason and Mary Chaloner. Married in 1865 to Jane A. Smalley in Wigan. Ronnie Attachments:
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 12, 2009 16:21:28 GMT
Sorry error:- Joseph was born in Minera, registered Wrexham.
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Post by eluned on Sept 12, 2009 16:41:29 GMT
Lovely pic Ronnie.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 12:11:07 GMT
Hello everyone, I have now been able to piece together all the wonderful information I was missing about Mary Chaloner and her family, all thanks to you all. I really am most grateful. Thank you. I need to move on to John Mason now so will be asking for more help on the Wrexham message board, see you there, hopefully, Ronnie Mason
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Post by annedw on Sept 14, 2009 12:39:57 GMT
HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 455; Page: 24
Have I got the right John Mason in 1851, he is a book keeper, age 34 born Montgomeryshire. Living in West Derby, wife Mary 29, b Wrexham Son, Joseph I ? aged 8 b Wrexham Dau, Sarah aged 6 b Liverpool.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 13:02:15 GMT
Hi Annette, Yes, that would be him, just hang on a few minutes will post what I already know on the Wrexham board. Ronnie
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 20:52:31 GMT
My last surviving uncle Geoff Mason is going to be 90 this w/e. I am travelling up from the south to help celebrate. Mary Challoner/Mason is his Gt Grandmother and I intend to visit the graves (as mentioned above) at Wern on Sunday 20th September Is there anyone who can give me directions coming from Bebington Cheshire please?
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Post by annedw on Sept 15, 2009 12:58:32 GMT
Wern www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.046991&lon=-3.078449&z=17.2&r=0&src=msaLead mines www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.051157&lon=-3.08132&z=17.2&r=0&src=msaIf you find the Minera Lead Mines visitor centre, then carry on and it`s on the RH side of the road. There is a row of about 6 houses and just before them is a gate in the wall that goes to the path. it is quite a high step up to it. This is the location of Wern graveyard, but it is very overgrown and very difficult to find a grave. You need to wear wellies and cover your arms and legs. A local man who does MIs disturbed a wasps nest a couple of weeks ago and got stung. Tom seems to have found them, so perhaps he can tell you where they are.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 15, 2009 13:21:25 GMT
Haha Annette!!! I am a pest control man. I run a pest Control Company. I will take some wasp killer with me!!! Thanks for the directions Ronnie
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