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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 13:30:34 GMT
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Post by annedw on Sept 15, 2009 13:46:38 GMT
The lady in the pic is standing on the path. Attachments:
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Post by tominera on Sept 15, 2009 17:13:12 GMT
Hi, I think Annettes directions are spot on but make sure you are approaching Lead Mine Centre etc from the Minera village end. If my memory serves me correct I am pretty sure they are on The Right hand side about halfway up. I would appreciate any photos of ANY GRAVES in Wern to add to my collection should anyone have any which they do not mind sharing. Good Luck Tom
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 16, 2009 20:04:50 GMT
Thanks to all for the wonderful directions and pointing out the pitfalls etc., If you see me back on the boards on monday then all will have gone well, if not.....................send out a search party!!!!!!
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 16, 2009 20:15:20 GMT
Re: The graves. If anyone wants a photo of any particular grave known to be there please let me know, I will try and find it. I won't be able to stay all day so can't go hunting in the hope of.....but I will look if I can. Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Sept 17, 2009 8:47:28 GMT
Just a thought , as you are in the area, you might like to take a visit and look at the Machine House, you will be very close to it. When you come to the Five Crosses Pub,which directly opposite the road to Minera. you need to go down Gwerygaseg Road, this runs along side the 5 xs. just at the end , the road bears left and on the opposite side is Willlow Road, between these two is a small road, nothing more than a lane really. The House is just down there, I can`t recall it`s name now, but it is right on the road, where the clump of trees is betweeen the brown fields on this pic. Attachments:
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Post by annedw on Sept 17, 2009 8:48:18 GMT
Old map. Attachments:
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 17, 2009 8:57:39 GMT
Thanks again Annette, yes that was part of the plan. your directions confirm where I thought it was. I do have some further questions about the Chaloners but will come back to that when things have calmed down a bit on the Mason front. Too much for us all to deal with at the moment and they won't be going anywhere
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Post by annedw on Sept 22, 2009 19:32:15 GMT
TREFEGLWYS ,TREF EGLWYS, a parish in the hundred of Llanidloes, county Montgomery, 9 miles from Newtown, Take another look at 1851 census for John and Mary, it does say Tre , Montgomeryshire, rather than Montgomery, which is just the name of the town. What do you think
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Post by eluned on Sept 22, 2009 20:34:00 GMT
Hi Ronnie I was struggling with his place of birth ...but you mentioned Trefalwyn and there is a Trefaldwyn eluned At the time I thought the Ronnie may have got the place of birth from another census and I haven't really thought about it since....but we do know John died before the next census. Having just had another look at it Trefe ys
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 22, 2009 21:33:40 GMT
OK, will take another look at it and see if I can read anything else. If you are right ...this could take me down a different route. So much to figure out and I am struggling to find the time! Although I am desperate to find out more Ronnie
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 22, 2009 21:44:43 GMT
With regard to Sarah Phoenix, "Jill's List" indicates there may be different ways to spell Phoenix?? see Pheniex 108: Sarah (Minera Vol 1 Baptisms 1772-1820) she was born circa 1784
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 22, 2009 22:16:46 GMT
Trefeglwys has a non conformist chapel!!
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Post by jojo on Sept 22, 2009 23:05:06 GMT
Sarah Phoenix, if this is her then she was born about 1782 Where Sarah Chaloner(wife) d.10 7 1826 aged 44yrs bur 13 7 1826 I searched all these with ZILCH. Sarah Phoenix not found .Parish Registers. Wrexham 1776/89 1789/1800 Gresford 1773/1810 Hope 1771/1781 1781/1812 Holt 1772/1812 Ruabon 1773/1802 (no Phoenix at all) Blackwell Index Non Conformist Denbighshire Sarah Phoenix bapt 3 Dec 1798 died 2 May 1824 aged 24 d/o James and Elizabeth. Wrexham . Co-ckings Index Non Conformist Flint No Phoenix named. There is a Sarah PHENIX bapt Wrexham St. Giles Aug 1, 1784 (born 29th) daughter of John & Eliz of Esclusham Above. Also another one on March 1, 1787 d/o Saml & Jane of Bis?
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Post by annedw on Sept 23, 2009 8:06:37 GMT
Sarah Phenix. Thanks goodness for that entry in St Giles, I didn`t have much time to spare and only looked at Phoenix.
Toms message. Hi, There are 9 baptisms in Wern Chapel between 1809 and 1826 all to children of Joseph Chaloner a Clerk(Agent poss.) and Sarah--She does have 3 different surnames but he may have had more than one wife or it is a different Joseph---
Three different surnames , they all begin with P, so I would guess that they have been mistranscribed. They are very early and quite difficult to read. I would say it is Sarah Phoenix on them all.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 24, 2009 8:20:15 GMT
Does anyone have a record of the deaths of these Chaloner children? Mary Ann b. 1817, Sarah b.1822, Thomas b.1824, and Anne b.1826 ?
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Post by annedw on Sept 24, 2009 11:14:05 GMT
They don`t appear in Wern burials. Could they have married ?North Wales BMD will tell you if it was a Civil or Church marriage. Just enter the surname, don`t tick exact match , there are a few there.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 24, 2009 12:19:09 GMT
Thanks Annette will try
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 9, 2009 10:21:03 GMT
I have a fairly good picture of Joseph Chaloners grave stone. is there any Welsh speaking/reading person who could translate the inscription for me please? Ronnie
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Post by Hen Locsin on Oct 10, 2009 22:24:04 GMT
Hi Ronnie, Pass the information by personal message if you wish and I will translate for you. Hen Locsin
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 11, 2009 9:30:21 GMT
thanks Hen Locsin, will pm my interpretation of text Ronnie
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 23, 2009 22:10:24 GMT
Thanks to Hen Locsin for the translation and comments, which I will copy here in the interests of Minera history: The translation for which you've been waiting:- " To a cold room in the deep earth Joseph went, after a beautiful life and a lifetime of good work, he gained his peace;He was beloved, with his white hair, ( for his Wisdom ) to be reborn without illness ( Suffering ) and came in peace free from his corrupt state to his everlasting crown" This may seem a little flowery, and say little about Joseph, but when I explain that it was written by an eminent Welsh Poet known as " Hwfa Mon ", the Hwfa M (? ) you quoted ,well then you'll probably understand. The actual words in some cases change their meaning over time and indeed go from everyday usage, in some cases. Hwfa Mon was an eminent poet and Archdruid of the National Eisteddfod, and a minister, Rev.Rowland Williams of Anglesey, ::)and his Ministry brought him to Wrexham, and Brymbo, and this begs the question, was Joseph a contemporary, a friend, or just a member of his congregation. Was the piece written specifically for Joseph or was it a standard piece written for such occasions, and the appropriate name entered. So maybe you can advise Joseph's D.o.B/ D.oD. and from where the inscription was taken? Church/ Chapel ? I know of at least one source of Rowland Williams 'work and maybe I can look at this to see if such is the case. Hope that this is of some interest. Hen Locsin
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 29, 2009 9:27:59 GMT
Way back at the top end of this thread annedw alluded to the history of Machine House "MACHINE HOUSE The Machine House is shown on the 1845 tithe map of Minera, and is on land owned by John Burton Esquire, it is recognized as plot 292, described as a `house and garden` and is occupied by Joseph Chaloner, who is also the occupier of Tyr Celyn, which is also described as a house and garden. In 1841 a report was taken of the Working Conditions in Collieries, and a Joseph Chaloner is described as being a coal weigher at Plas Mostyn Colliery so presumably this would confirm that the Machine House was originally part of the Colliery Buildings. There are deeds of sale dated 1838 relating to Plas Mostyn Colliery, these are held at Ruthin Archives. Does this indicate that part of the colliery was sold off, and that this is when the Machine House became a dwelling place ?"
Is there any record of who might have been in occupation of TYR CELYN (plot 292) from 1841 onwards?, when Joseph Chaloner was also in occupation of Machine House, as, presumably, he would not have occupied both properties at the same time. Just wondering if Mary having married John Mason Jnr in Dec 1841 might have lived there. Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Oct 30, 2009 9:25:58 GMT
Shame the 1841 is missing
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 30, 2009 15:40:54 GMT
Ah, thanks so that is the missing bit!!!
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Post by eluned on Oct 30, 2009 15:45:55 GMT
All the 1841 census Wrexham area is missing apart from the town centre, which is available transcribed in book form and reproduced by the Clwyd FHS
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Post by ronniemason on Apr 14, 2010 9:11:40 GMT
;D Hi all, back again, A person I have been in touch with has been researching Chaloners and has alluded to the fact that Ellin, married to John Chaloner d1786 and mother of Joseph Chaloner 1775-1858, is a BURTON, is there anyone with Burton connections who could substantiate this? Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Apr 25, 2010 11:54:27 GMT
hdl.handle.net/10107/682834The Will of Elizabeth Burton, you can work out that she might have been previously a Griffiths. One of the wittnesses who signed is Joseph Chalenor Jnr. Burton, Elizabeth, Minera, Pant lwyd ( Twll ?), Wrexham, Denbigh, Widow Elizabeth Burton : will, 1850.
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Post by annedw on May 5, 2010 14:29:24 GMT
Wrexham PR`s Marriages 27th July 1764 John Chaloner otp ba. Ellinor Burton otp sp. Wittnesses. Tho`s Burton Jnr. John Edwards. This is interesting !!! hdl.handle.net/10107/240810Burton, Francis, Esclusham Below, Wrexham, Denbigh, Lead ore washer : will, 1824 Will of Francis Burton, late of Minera & Esclusham Below. A legacy of £200 had been bequeathed to him by his late brother Robert Burton Names are. Mary Burton, wife Robert Burton, my late brother. Joseph Burton, son Sarah , now Davies, daughter Joseph Chaloner, my nephew, sole executor. 22 May 1824 Joseph Chaloner took the oath. freespace.virgin.net/jill.farndon25/index.html108 Minera Vol 1 Baptisms 1772-1820 108 Minera Chapel: ---, Anne, David, Elizabeth, Ellinor, Francis, Fransis, Hanna(h), Jane, John, Joseph, Josepth, Margaret, Margrat, Margret, Mary, Richard David, Robert Owen, Sarah, Thomas, Thos, William; Right - work that one out I`ve just realised that Ellinor can`t be the one that married John Chaloner, the date 1764 is before 1772.
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Post by annedw on May 6, 2010 15:00:07 GMT
MORE BURTON STUFF
Wrexham Advertiser Saturday, February 21, 1857; Death on the 14 inst of Mr D Ellis Coedpoeth aged 68. Late agent to John Burton of Minera hall. Deceaced succeeded his father as agent to Mr Burton in 1823.
Wrexham Advertiser Saturday, April 04, 1857; Death on the 26 ult of Ellinor Burton aged 71 at the residence of her brother John. daughter of the late David Burton, Ty Celyn. Minera.
Wrexham Advertiser, Saturday, January 09, 1858; On the 4th inst at Berse Drelincourt after a few hours illness Jane wife of Rev Robert Owen Burton.
Wrexham Advertiser Saturday, January 19, 1861 17 th inst at St Johns Paddington, the Rev R O Burton , Minera Hall married Hannah Louisa , daughter of late James Coc-kson Macclesfield.
Wrexham Advertiser Saturday, August 25, 1866 23 rd inst Abdington Berks John Burton Esq , Gresford married by his brother Rev R O Burton Minera Hall, to Emily Louisa Box.
NW Chronicle.Tuesday, May 24, 1836 Death. On the 13th at an advanced age Ann relict of David Burton of Minera and mother of John Burton of Minera Hall.
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