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Post by ronniemason on Mar 10, 2010 12:03:14 GMT
Hi all, No urgency but if you should ever have nothing to do.......! ( you love it really!!) wondered if you could look into this one Sarah Phoenix b. 1784c Minera, m. 30-12-1805 to Joseph Chaloner (well known to us) d. 10-7-1826, buried Wern. Children known. I know there are difficulties with regard to spelling of name. Would be nice to know her parents and siblings if any. what do you think? Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Mar 10, 2010 12:48:39 GMT
minerahistory.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=902&page=2REPLY 43, Sarah Phoenix, if this is her then she was born about 1782 Where Sarah Chaloner(wife) d.10 7 1826 aged 44yrs bur 13 7 1826 I searched in vain I searched all these with ZILCH. Sarah Phoenix not found . Parish Registers. Wrexham 1776/89 1789/1800 Gresford 1773/1810 Hope 1771/1781 1781/1812 Holt 1772/1812 Ruabon 1773/1802 (no Phoenix at all) JOJO found this. There is a Sarah PHENIX bapt Wrexham St. Giles Aug 1, 1784 (born 29th) daughter of John & Eliz of Esclusham Above. Also another one on March 1, 1787 d/o Saml & Jane of Bis?
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Post by jojo on Mar 10, 2010 15:47:37 GMT
The Clwyd FHS transcripts of Wrexham Baptisms 1776 to 1789 have quite a few entries for PHENIX, PHONIX but only a couple for PHOENIX. ADDED there is also one entry under FENIX
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Post by celticar on Mar 10, 2010 18:26:45 GMT
From my own research into that surname, you may find this interesting. The Area I mainly looked at was in the Bangor-on-dee to Holt area.
For the PHOENIX surname at this time period up to at least 1860's, you need to look at ALL the spellings. In the church records you can have the children in the same family, in the same house being spelt differently. This is down to the person writing the entry, spelling it as it sounds. Have looked at a number of reference, and the same thing showing time after time. The spelling changing each time in the census too. Get to about the 1860's and the families then wrote down their surname as was shown them in the records. Case as an example being 2 brothers spelling the name differently and the desending families following that spelling ever more.
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Post by eluned on Mar 10, 2010 18:38:09 GMT
Totally agree celticar. One branch of the Kelly family were Keeling/Kelling. Tominera's Michael family were Mitchel's....etc etc. Even I would struggle with Phoenix ;D Modified. I just proved a point by mis spelling Michael!
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Post by margaret on Mar 10, 2010 19:19:10 GMT
Just had a look on the Names from Clwyd site. Jill Rose has documented more than a dozen variations of the surname Phoenix. This could be a long haul !
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by ronniemason on Mar 11, 2010 8:40:30 GMT
Yes, thanks all. Jill's list is a clear indication of the potential problem here. A coincidence is that one of my grandsons has the name Jude Phoenix. But one advantage here is maybe that it is such an unusual name that it may narrow things a bit even if spelling is varied? Ronnie
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Post by ago on Dec 31, 2010 19:28:01 GMT
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Post by ago on Jan 1, 2011 20:01:20 GMT
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Post by ago on Nov 6, 2011 20:54:42 GMT
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Post by ago on Nov 6, 2011 22:21:48 GMT
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Post by lb on Nov 12, 2011 18:03:37 GMT
Hi,
I have a little information on a John Phenix of Esclusham Above which I came across while looking for something else entirely.
The 1783 will of Martha Davies of Esclusham Above (the widow of David Davies of Frondeg) disposes of a number of properties, one of which is Gegin-wen, which I think most people on here will know of. It also mentions a "messuage [...] and lands" in Esclusham which is willed to her "husbandman and relation" John Phenix. Two of his daughters are mentioned; unfortunately the names are Elizabeth and Mary, rather than Sarah. However, it proves that there was a Phenix family with land in Esclusham Above at the end of the 18th century.
Gegin-wen itself goes to Martha's nephew John Savage, unless (and this is quite a nice touch), Edward Morris, the son of her sister Elinor, "who is now abroad in America or somewhere out of this kingdom" happens to return to the country.
Amongst Martha's other relations mentioned are "cousins" John Williams of Hafodybwch; Robert Jones of Stansty; Simon Phenix of Marchweil (I have found Phenix family members in Marchweil before, where they were tenants of the farm called Tythyn Daniel); John Edwards of Ruabon; and a John (or James?) ffennah.
Martha Davies was herself the daughter of a yeoman called Thomas Edwards, some of whose papers I found in the Denbighshire Archives. I think he was the owner of Gegin-wen.
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Post by lb on Nov 12, 2011 18:06:16 GMT
Incidentally, the phrase "husbandman and relation" makes me think that Mrs Davies had got her relative John Phenix in to farm her lands.
I guess he would also have been related to Simon Phenix of Marchweil.
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