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Post by parkmarsh on Nov 24, 2010 23:15:33 GMT
I am trying to find out any information on my great great aunts. I know there were 4 sisters Molly, Winnie, Elsie (born approx 1895) and Betty and a brother (I think). I think Molly, Betty and Winnie were teachers and Elsie a nurse. Their father was Richard Williams who was an iron worker in 1920.
Betty and Molly lived together in Heol Maelor (possibly no.69), Coedpoeth in the mid 1980s. Molly died in the late 1980s aged around 94 and we lost contact with Betty shortly after 2000 when she moved aged around 90.
I would be grateful for any help
Thanks
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Post by annedw on Nov 25, 2010 8:31:40 GMT
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 13:17:39 GMT
Hi Perhaps Molly is a pet name as I can't seem to find a Molly Williams having passed away in Wrexham at that time and with her age. It is usually used as a pet name for Mary but also Margaret. Perhaps these women were widows so the death would not be registered under Williams. I can only find one family that is a possibility but perhaps I'm clutching at straws 1901 Esclusham Lime Works Cottages RG13; Piece: 5221; Folio: 103; Page: 16 Richard Williams 46 lime works foreman b.Montgomery Margaret wife 30 b.Minera George son 13 Frederick son 11 Eliza daur 9 Mary daur 4 Edith daur 1 All other children born Bersham
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 13:56:42 GMT
Hi Which of the siblings was your ancestor and can you provide some furher information on them please? You should also try a search in the 1911 census. eluned
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Post by annedw on Nov 25, 2010 17:13:02 GMT
On Genes Reunited there is a Joanne who has both Molly Williams b 1900 and Elsie born 1895 , both Wrexham in her tree, howver she doesn`t have the others. I can`t find either of these in 1901 with father Richard, and there`s no birth registration in 1900 for Molly Williams. Following is copied from Ge Ru message board. Are you Joanne 1 Please could anyone help me find any info on my great grandmother Winnie Williams' family? I think she was born in the early 1900s in the Wrexham area or nearby and was a teacher. She had a son Eric to Michael Thompson (a doctor from Ireland who I think emigrated to the USA). They weren't married and Eric lived for a time with her sister Elsie in North East England. I know Winnie had sisters Molly, Betty and Elsie and I think there might have also been a brother. Molly and Betty were living in Coed Poeth in the 1980s
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Post by tominera on Nov 25, 2010 18:23:09 GMT
Hi, I believe the Betty Williams you are researching is the one who shared her childhood and career memories with the late Clifford Davies. He published a small booklet about her which I have in my possession. Betty says she was born 25 8 1913 in the "Calch"(Limeworks) where her father Richard was the manager. He was born in Newtown, Montgomeryshire. When Betty was born it was quite a shock for the family as her father Richard was aged 60 years and already had eight children ;D--- I remember her vaguely and also remember her sister Winnie who taught in Minera School.-Tom
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 19:19:11 GMT
Hi Looks good to me Tominera and matches my find in the 1901 census too.
The genes reunited 1911 census find just didn't feel right to me. I felt that the father would most likely have a middle class ocupation seeing that 4 of his daughters went on to have professional careers.
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 19:41:49 GMT
A likely marriage Wrexham civil Richard Williams to Margaret Eliza Williams or Ann Jones Dec 1/4 1887 1891 Rock Cottage, Esclusham Above RG12; Piece: 4617; Folio 90; Page 9 Richard Williams 35 foreman at limeworks b.? Forton, Mongomeryshire Margaret Williams 20 b.Minera George Williams 3 b.Minera Frederick Williams 1 b.Minera
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Post by margaret on Nov 25, 2010 20:42:06 GMT
If this is the correct family - please see my post "Williams, Rock Cottage, Minera" posted on May 1, 2009 re Margaret Ellen Williams born 1905
Regards - Margaret
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 20:46:25 GMT
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 20:48:43 GMT
If this is the correct family - please see my post "Williams, Rock Cottage, Minera" posted on May 1, 2009 re Margaret Ellen Williams born 1905 Regards - Margaret This is the post mentioned by Margaret. "I have in my collection a Birth Certificate for Margaret Ellen Williams, born 1905 at Rock Cottage, Minera. The parents are Richard and Margaret Eliza Williams. Richard is Lime Works Foreman and according to Census records they had lived here since at least 1891. Margaret Eliza was born in Minera and their other children were George, Frederick, Eliza , Mary and Edith. I should be glad to forward the Birth Certificate to its correct home, so if anyone recognises this family and requires the document please send me a PM with your details Regards - Margaret."
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 20:55:41 GMT
Is Margaret our Molly There's a death registered June 1988 Wrexham Maelor Margaret Ellen Williams aged 86yrs Birth date 31 Mar 1902 The birth is 3 years out but what about the birthday I would love to know the dob on the cert MODIFIED Richard & Margaret's daur Marg Ellen died as a small child.
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Post by margaret on Nov 25, 2010 21:16:16 GMT
The date was 31 Jan 1905
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Post by margaret on Nov 25, 2010 22:28:15 GMT
In Tom's mail there are eight children born before Betty in 1913 - so we are still missing two children !
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Post by nellie on Nov 25, 2010 22:35:27 GMT
1911 census Richard and Margaret Williams were still in Minera where Richard was Works Manager. They had been married 23 years and had 8 children but 2 had died. Living with them were Frederick 21 Mary 14 (possibly Molly) Edith 11 Winifred 9 (possibly Winnie) All 4 children were born in Minera Hope this is of some use. I am not sure how Betty and Elsie fit in but Betty was probably not born
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Post by parkmarsh on Nov 25, 2010 22:54:50 GMT
Thanks to everyone for their quick replies. I will check them all out.
Eluned I am the great grandaughter of Winnie. She had my grandfather Eric but was not married so he went to live with her sister at birth. She had no further contact with him but her other sisters made contact with him after Winnie died. My mother kept in contact with Betty so our only information on the family is what she has chosen to tell us. There could well be other siblings we don't know about.
Tominera is there anywhere I can still get hold of the booklet you mentioned.
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Post by eluned on Nov 25, 2010 23:07:50 GMT
In Tom's mail there are eight children born before Betty in 1913 - so we are still missing two children ! It's possible the 2 missing children may have died very young They have now been confirmed as deseased in nellie's 1911 post. Hello parkmarsh Do you think Elsie could have been Edith? What info do you have with regard to her please? If you are the lady who posted the message on genes, the thread mentions Elsie's marriage cert. Do you have this?
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Post by eluned on Nov 26, 2010 9:03:10 GMT
Bap 25 Mar 1900, born 9 Nov 1899 Edith d/o Richard & Margaret Eliza Williams, Rock Cottage
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Post by tominera on Nov 26, 2010 14:04:33 GMT
Hi, I am sorry I do not know where you can obtain the booklet but if you send me your E mail add. in a PM I am sure I can sort something out for you. Buried in Plot 375 Coedpoeth Cemetery are the following------- WILLIAMS Margaret Eliza aged 76 yrs bur. 3 4 1947 WILLIAMS Margaret Ellen aged 1 Yr 7 Mths d.21 9 1906 bu.25 9 1906 WILLIAMS Richard aged 75 yrs bur. 18 8 1928---looks good also in Plot 1569 Winifred Williams d.25 11 1959 bur 28 11 1959 see pic ---Tom Attachments:
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Post by eluned on Nov 26, 2010 14:44:42 GMT
If this is the correct family - please see my post "Williams, Rock Cottage, Minera" posted on May 1, 2009 re Margaret Ellen Williams born 1905 Regards - Margaret So sad The birth certificate above belonged to the child buried with her parents in Coedpoeth Cemetery, as posted by tominera.
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Post by tominera on Nov 26, 2010 15:20:33 GMT
Hi Just a wee bit more:- Betty Williams's grandfather was Sam Williams(had a cousin Peter Williams who went to work in the Lead Mines) who married a local girl named Mair KELLY When Betty's mother was seven years old -Her father was blown to pieces when a dynamite blast went wrong and she was left to bring up 5 children on her own, mainly from dressmaking, taking in lodgers(mainly drovers) and writing english letters for welsh folk who could not do it for themselves. Bapt for Winnie and poor Margaret Ellen in the Coedpoeth Wesleyan Circuit records. Winifred born 11 3 1902 bapt 30 7 1902 Margaret Ellen b 31 1 1905 bapt 17 5 1905---Parents for both are Richard & Margaret Eliza Williams-Minera. Hope this helps Good luck Tom
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Post by annedw on Nov 26, 2010 15:24:49 GMT
maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=26+aston+grove+wrexham&sll=53.051636,-2.984033&sspn=0.009183,0.018668&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=26+Aston+Grove,+Wrexham+LL12+7,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.051739,-2.984033&spn=0,0.018668&z=15&layer=c&cbll=53.051865,-2.984193&panoid=j0qPsPh55WjzZ-CTGI1pYA&cbp=12,354.58,,0,-3.77 Aston Grove , Wrexham, where Richard and Margaret lived, according to the headstone.
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Post by eluned on Nov 26, 2010 15:33:07 GMT
I think Acton Grove may be the address for Winifred but not positive. MODIFIED Not being a local but knowing there's an Acton this is what I put but I notice now that Annedw said Aston Grove. Not sure which it says on the stone, slightly blurred image.
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Post by parkmarsh on Nov 26, 2010 22:24:10 GMT
Hi
Tominera this looks promising as i remember being told Winnie died aged 56.
Eluned I do have Elsie's marriage cert unfortunately this is the only documented evidence I have of the family. Elsie Williams married Sam France 2/8/1920 aged 25, profession nurse, residence at time Minera, father Richard Williams iron worker.
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Post by eluned on Nov 26, 2010 22:38:44 GMT
Can you give us the witnesses names and was there an address for Elsie? eluned
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Post by annedw on Nov 27, 2010 8:37:30 GMT
I think Acton Grove may be the address for Winifred but not positive. MODIFIED Not being a local but knowing there's an Acton this is what I put but I notice now that Annedw said Aston Grove. Not sure which it says on the stone, slightly blurred image. It does look like Acton on the stone, and many of the streets there are named `Grove,` Aston Grove is in Maesydre area, so from the info below we have a choice . It must have been a road/street for to be 26/28 I`ve just realised the grave is Winifred, so it would her living at Acton/Aston Grove in 1959 not Richard. A Garden Village was built in Wrexham in 1913-17. In the 1920s and 1930s Wrexham council began the work of slum clearance. At that time a new council house estate was built at Acton Park. In the 1930s other council estates were built at Spring Lodge and Maes Y Dre. Perhaps there will be obituaries in the local paper that can give more details on the family. They are on microfilm at Wrexham Archives if you can get there to see them.
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Post by tominera on Nov 27, 2010 10:44:43 GMT
Hi, Betty states in booklet her eldest sister is/was a nurse in Liverpool---Tom
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Post by eluned on Nov 27, 2010 10:55:20 GMT
Hi, Betty states in booklet her eldest sister is/was a nurse in Liverpool---Tom So this would be Eliza In Yorkshire Elsie isn't a pet name for anything as far as I'm aware but I've found this link that says both are forms of Elizabeth. www.baby-names-meanings.net/meaning/elsie.html
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Post by eluned on Nov 27, 2010 12:40:09 GMT
Finding a nurse www.scarletfinders.co.uk/2.htmlRCN Membership - established in 1916 as a professional association for nurses, which later became a union. The only RCN membership information available is a published volume covering 1916-1923. This gives name, joining date, address and qualification. Registration - The General Nursing Councils (GNC) for England was established in 1921 with clearly prescribed duties and responsibilities for the training, examination and registration of nurses and the approval of training schools for the purpose of maintaining a Register of Nurses. The Register of Nurses was first published in 1922.
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Post by eluned on Nov 27, 2010 14:23:18 GMT
Hi Just a wee bit more:- Betty Williams's grandfather was Sam Williams(had a cousin Peter Williams who went to work in the Lead Mines) who married a local girl named Mair KELLY When Betty's mother was seven years old -Her father was blown to pieces when a dynamite blast went wrong and she was left to bring up 5 children on her own. Good luck Tom I couldn't resist a look at the Kellys! ;D Samuel Williams to Mary Kelly Wrexham Civil Jun 1/4 1868 In 1871 they are living next door to Edward Lloyd and Elizabeth nee Kelly at Plasgwyn Mountain. RG10; Piece: 5656; Folio: 105; Page: 16 Saml Williams 23 lead miner b.Hope Mary 22 b.Minera Mary daur 1yr b." Margt Eliza 2 months b." I believe Mary was my Gt Grandma's sister
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