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Post by annedw on Oct 23, 2012 18:01:01 GMT
I`m trying to help the mother of a friend , she is not from Wrexham , but does live in Denbighshire so I think that nearly counts. At the moment I don`t have a subscription with any sites, so am scouring for what I can get for free. Genes Reunited has 1911 free till Nov so thats a bonus.
The mother has the middle name of Douglas which has been a good clue. I`m not giving her name as she is alive. So far I have this.
Births Mar 1886 RENNIE Margaret Douglas W Derby 8b 321
marriage Rennie Margaret / Harry Welsh. Liverpool 8b 133 22 Nov 1904 Liverpool St Nicholas Harry Welsh 21 bachelor labourer of 6 Doncaster Street father Andrew Welsh deceased cooper Margaret Rennie 19 spinster 6 Doncaster Street father John Rennie deceased porter witnesses Michael Fagan or Hagan and Margaret Donohue
Births Jun 1907 WELSH Helena W. Derby 8b 456
I think this is Margaret Rennie. 1911 Census Husband / Father is not at home so we don`t have his name 158 Dryden St , Scotland, Liverpool Margaret Welsh Head of Household 26 born Liverpool Lancs c 1885. Close enough match for Margaret Rennie b Mar qtr 1886 Condition / Years Married / 7 Years = c 1904 Total Children Born Alive 3 Children Still Living 3 Helena Welsh Daughter 4 b Liverpool Elizabeth Welsh Daughter 1 b Liverpool Margaret Welsh Daughter 1 b Liverpool
And I think this may be Harry, there is no other Harry / Henry with a wife Margaret that I can find. All the men are married and from Liverpool area.
1911 14 Margaret Street, Llanbeblig , Carnarvon Mary Ann Harris head widow 61 b Bristol Kate Ellen Watt neice single 29 b Blaenau Ffestioniog Henry Tyrer married boarder 30 b Everton Harry Welsh married boarder 26 b Renfrew Greenoch Swrle John Watt married boarder 38 painter b West Derby
Marriages Dec 1935 Bailey Stanley F / Welsh Liverpool N 8b 1117 Welsh Helena R / Bailey Liverpool N. 8b 1117
Can anyone find Harry and Margaret (Douglas) Rennie in 1901 and 1891, and anything else that will be useful and relevant.
Thanks
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Post by jasacat on Oct 23, 2012 20:48:08 GMT
How about: 1901 141,Arlington St. , Kirkdale, Liverpool. Head: John M Rennie, Widower , Age : 59 Dock Labourer. b Montevideo, America Daughter Margaret Age : 16 Tin worker b Liverpool. Daughter Helena Age : 14 b Liverpool. Son William Age : 10 b Liverpool. Visitor Anny (sic) Beasley M Age : 19 b Liverpool.
Good luck !
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Post by frankm on Oct 24, 2012 6:58:32 GMT
John alive in 1901 census deceased in 1904 (marriage)
Deaths Dec 1903 RENNIE John 60 Liverpool 8b 7 _____________________________________ 1881 Census
John Rennie age: 38 birth year: 1843 birthplace: South America relationship to head of household: Brother marital condition: Single profession/occupation: No Occupation address: 27 Flaxman St census place: West Derby, Lancashire, England
Household Gender Age Birthplace head William Rennie M 39 South America sister Mary Rennie F 40 South America brother John Rennie M 38 South America housekeeper Bridget Dowdle F 60 Ireland housekeeper daughter Elizabeth Dowdle F 18 Liverpool, Lancashire, England visitor Annie Parks F 12 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
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Post by annedw on Oct 24, 2012 12:09:29 GMT
Margaret Welsh ( Rennie) is a witness to the marriage of Mary Rennie aged 29 years,and Joseph Haydon Liverpool St Peter 13th July 1908 Where does Mary fit in ? Thanks for the help.
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Post by frankm on Oct 24, 2012 12:34:59 GMT
Hope I'm on the right track here
Matrimonios registrados en la Iglesia San Andrés del Centro, Buenos Aires "Volúmen 1"—1827-1849
Rennie, John Scotland Campbell, Mary Douglas Scotland 12/4/1839 then
Baptisms at St John's Church (5), 1838 to 1842
Born 29/6/1841 Baptised 30/7/1841 Rennie, William Father - John Mother -Mary Douglas Abode - Monte Video Occupation - Merchant Minister - J. Armstrong
"Douglas" would seem to confirm this is the right line
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Post by frankm on Oct 24, 2012 20:25:57 GMT
Re Mary
This could be a red herring - age not right
Births Sep 1883 RENNIE Mary Campbell Toxteth Park 8b 183
If the S America info is good the Campbell is interesting.
But this would explain where she was for the 1901 census
name: Mary C Rennie age: 18 relationship to head of household: Inmate birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire record type: Institution registration district: West Derby sub-district: South Everton ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel civil parish: Everton county: Lancashire
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Post by frankm on Oct 25, 2012 6:21:03 GMT
A little bit more
John (b abt 1811) appears to have been in partnership with John MacFarlane in a company called Rennie MacFarlane in S. America. This seems to have ended around the 1850's.
In the 1861 census he is at 42 Bedford St. North, Liverpool, widower, age 50, Merchant(General), born Maybole NB? (North Britain?) With him are sons ,William, age 17, Clerk(Commercial), b. Montevideo, John, age 16, Scholar, b. Montevideo, daughter, Bethia R., age 15 Scholar, b. Buenos Aires and Bridget Doyle, age 30, House Servant, b. Ireland.
In the 1901 census William is at 1 Howat St. Everton, age 59, Tobacconist/Newsagent, b. Montevideo. Also is Bridget Dowdall, age 70, boarder, b. Ireland. (probably should be Doyle)
I have not been able to find the 1901 entry which jasacat found nor anything for 1891 as yet.
all the best, Rob
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Post by nellie on Oct 25, 2012 11:16:32 GMT
From Wills and Probate records:- Bethia Rennie died 25 March 1878 Martensen St Liverpool Less than £600 Admin William Rennie 12 Martensen St, Book keeper, Brother and Sole Executor
John Rennie died 15 Dec 1875 Noel St Liverpool, Gentleman and Widower Less than £600 Admin William Rennie 12 Martensen St Liverpool, Book keeper, Son and one of the Next of Kin
Mary Campbell Rennie (born 1848) died 17 June 1882 Coltart St Liverpool spinster Personal Estate £279 15s 9d Probate William Rennie Book keeper, Brother and Elizabeth Dowdle spinster both of 9 Coltart St Hope this is of interest, Nellie
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Post by nellie on Oct 25, 2012 14:43:31 GMT
In the 1891 census William is at 1 Howat St Everton as a visitor and is a Book keeper born in South America. Head of household is William Hill and his wife Elizabeth. 9th Decenber 1886 at St Michael's Toxteth William Hill age 26 Teacher of Music married Elizabeth Rennie age 22 daughter of John Rennie, Merchant, deceased I suspect that Elizabeth Rennie daughter of John Rennie and Elizabeth Dowdle daughter of his housekeeper are one and the same - just a thought. John was a widower in 1861 and Bethia was his youngest age 15. Elizabeth was born c 1863 Nellie
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Post by nellie on Oct 25, 2012 15:55:25 GMT
Marriage April1882 Toxteth Park John McFarlane Rennie and Sarah McDowell Baptism 2 Jul 1883 Liverpool St Peter Mary Campbell Rennie daughter of John McFarlane and Sarah Rennie born 9 June 1883 The other children do not seem to have been baptised in Liverpool. I think Sarah may have died in Mar 1900 age 47 so she should be on 1891 census too but I have failed to find any of them. Nellie
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Post by nellie on Oct 25, 2012 17:23:59 GMT
In 1911 William and Elizabeth Hill are back at 1 Howat St living with Lena Rennie born 1888. I believe this is Helena. Elizabeth Hill is blind. Sarah McDowell was born in Ireland c 1854 the daughter of John and Helena McDowell. I wonder if the family were all in Ireland in 1891. Nelllie
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Post by annedw on Oct 27, 2012 12:53:09 GMT
Thanks everyone, I`m adding all this to my notes, till my friend gets some more info.
This is her mother who married Stanley F Bailey. in 1935, I`m not too bothered about him yet. Births Jun 1907 WELSH Helena W. Derby 8b 456
---------------------------------------------------------------
My friend married a Green .whose father was Alexander John Green born Liverpool died 1976. Alexander John Greens parents were Alexander Green and mother Gladys Hughes.
This is what I`m struggling now.
I beleive Alexanders father was John Green b 1830 1841 Sussex online parish clerks Enumeration District 7 District Worthing All of that part of Angmering Parish from Ham to Angleton (sic) both inclusive lying to the south of No.6 and the Road through the village. GREEN George Snr 65, Ag Lab Elizabeth 65, Sarah PEY 65 (OS) other surname GREEN George Jnr 40, Ag Lab Elizabeth 40, John 10, Alfred 8, Robert 7, Ann 4, George 1,
1911 Piece: 22278 all in same household. Married 28 years. c 1883. 11 children born alive 6 living 5 died. 100 Up Stanhope St Liverpool Registration district: Toxteth Park John Green 80 Rigger ships b Angmering Sussex. 2 miles from Little Hampton as in 1891 Jane Green 52 moneylender. All below b Liverpool William Henry Green 25 son single photographer Alfred Green 15 son french polisher Louie Victor Green son 13 Elizabeth Jane Griffiths 4 grand daughter
Alexander is not at home as he has married Gladys Hughes, I`m waiting for the marriage certificate as it was Civil. Marriages Jun 1910 Conway. Civil Marriage. GREEN Alexander / Gwladys HUGHES
1911 RG number: RG14 Piece: 22493 7 Upper High St Everton Liverpool GREEN, Alex Head Married M 22 Dock Labourer b Liverpool Lanc 1889 GREEN, Glady Wife Married 2 years F 20 b Flint, Flint. (Hughes b 1891) GREEN, Clarence Son (6 MONTHS) Llanddano Wales
Births Dec 1910 GREEN Clarence V Conway 11b 414 Deaths Sep 1911 Green Clarence V 0 Conway 11b 612
Clarence Victor Green bapised 22 Nov 1910 St Andrews Eglwys Rhos Caernarvonshire address 15 Alexandra Road and Alexander was a clerk
I have them in 1901 when Alexander is 12 and in 1891 when he is 2.
My problem is I can`t find John b 1830 anywhere between 1841 and 1891.
I think this may be his marriage it matches the 28 years in 1911 Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1883 Is anyone able to find details on this, it might help with ages / fathers etc. GREEN John / WILLIAMS Jane Toxteth Park, St. Cleopas Liverpool
Toxteth Park Burials all in same grave GREEN John 81 years Ships Rigger 100 Upper Stanhope Street 11 February 1912 b c 1831 GREEN Jane 72 years Widow 43 Vickers Street Toxteth Park 15 May 1931 bc 1859 GREEN Alfred 39 years - 75 Biswell Street Toxteth 10 August 1933 GREEN Annie 74 years - 95 Ampthill Road Liverpool 17 22 May 1968
Thanks.
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Post by frankm on Oct 28, 2012 0:32:23 GMT
John Green baptism/christening date: 27 Jun 1830 baptism/christening place: Angmering, Sussex, England father's name: George Green mother's name: Elizabeth
John Green Military Service 1853-1857 United Kingdom birthplace: Sussex birth year: 1830 (Merchant Navy Seamen Records)
Census 1891 John Green age: 61 Head birthplace: Little Hampton, Sussex registration district: Toxteth Park
Not sure what you found for 1901 census but this is interesting (and confusing)
census date: 31 Mar 1901 John Green age: 70 relationship to head of household: A B Seaman birthplace: Littlehampton, Sussex record type: Vessel registration district: Cardiff
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Post by annedw on Oct 28, 2012 11:25:42 GMT
I think these are all the same family. 1911 Piece: 22278 all in same household. John Green 80 Rigger ships b Angmering Sussex. 2 miles from Little Hampton as in 1891 Jane Green 52 moneylender. All below b Liverpool William Henry Green 25 son single photographer Alfred Green 15 son french polisher Louie Victor Green son 13 Elizabeth Jane Griffiths 4 grand daughter 1901 piece 3429 Folio 8 John Green 70 shiprigger b Liverpool Jane Green wife 41 William H Green 14. Alexander Green son 12. Alfred Green 5 Louis V Green 3 1891 piece 2926 Folio 48 John Green 61 b Littlehampton Jane Green 30 b Liverpool William H Green 4 Alexander Green 2 plus more children Before this it`s getting very messy, I`ve also had some help on Rootschat, so don`t want you to waste time searching for what I already have. www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,620975.0.html The details about the Rennie family are only on here and I really appreciate that.
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Post by frankm on Oct 28, 2012 12:20:46 GMT
Age is not right but Census 1871 John Green age: 35 head of household birthplace: Sussex West Derby Toxteth Park Lancashire wife Frances Green F 28 Liverpool, Lancashire daughter Caroline Green F 9 Liverpool, Lancashire daughter Elizabeth Green F 2 Liverpool, Lancashire daughter Johanna Green F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire He would have been around 50 when he married in 1883 so may well have been a widower.
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Post by frankm on Oct 28, 2012 12:30:18 GMT
Deaths 1882 Green Frances 38 Toxteth Park 8b 231
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Post by annedw on Oct 28, 2012 17:04:12 GMT
St Nicholas Liverpool 10th July 1878 George Spruce aged 21,bachelor,mariner father John Spruce,Timber dealer abode St Pauls Square Jane Gray,aged 20,spinster, abode London Road, father George Gray,marinerwitness to marriage Daniel and Mary Spruce St Cleopas,Liverpool October 7th 1883 John Green,aged 45,widower,store keeper, 67 Court ,9 House,Mann Street father George Green,farmer Jane Williams ,aged 25 Widow, 67 Court,10 House,Mann Street father George Grey,firemanwitness to marriage Isabella Gaskell and James Mcdell? Look here in 1911 - John Green has a stepson named Spruce, so why did Jane say she was Williams. I can`t find a death for George Spruce unless he died at sea, and no remarriage to a Williams for Jane. A mystery 1911 Piece: 22278 all in same household. Married 28 years. c 1883. 11 children born alive 6 living 5 died. 100 Up Stanhope St Liverpool Registration district: Toxteth Park John Green 80 Rigger ships b Angmering Sussex. 2 miles from Little Hampton as in 1891 Jane Green 52 moneylender. All below b Liverpool b c 1859 William Henry Green 25 son single photographer Alfred Green 15 son french polisher Louie Victor Green son 13 Elizabeth Jane Griffiths 4 grand daughter George Daniel Spruce 32 stepson married . carter at hair and feathers manf. b 1879. [/b ]Married 11 years, 5 children born alive 4 living 1 died. Elizabeth Mary Spruce 30 stepsons wife Elizabeth Jane Spruce 9 grand daughter Alice Spruce 8 “” George Spruce 3 grandson John Spruce 1 “”
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Post by frankm on Oct 28, 2012 23:10:13 GMT
I have found that sometimes a re-marriage turns up under maiden name and/or married name. This could be Jane Spruce ? Marriages Dec 1881 GRAY Jane Toxteth Park 8b 496 Williams David Toxteth Park 8b 496 Then take your pick out of these Deaths Mar 1883 WILLIAMS David 76 Kendal 10b 477 WILLIAMS David 73 Toxteth Park 8b 259 *most likely?* WILLIAMS David 28 Ormskirk 8b 662 Deaths Jun 1883 WILLIAMS David 67 Prestwich 268 WILLIAMS David George 49 W. Derby 8b 343
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Post by frankm on Oct 29, 2012 0:44:36 GMT
Probably not that relevant to the line you are following but it may help
George Daniel Spruce
baptism/christening date: 27 Apr 1879
(another record same except baptism 17 Oct 1878 )
baptism/christening place: St. Cleopas', Liverpool, Lancashire, England birth date: 16 Sep 1878 birthplace: St. Cleopas, Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England
father's name: George Spruce mother's name: Jane
Census 1881
George Spruce age: 2 birth year: 1879 birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire, England relationship to head of household: Grand Son
address: 65 Northumberland Street census place: Toxteth Park, Lancashire, England Household Gender Age Birthplace head George Gray M 49 Scotland wife Alice Gray F 42 Liverpool, Lancashire, England daughter Alice Gray F 11 Liverpool, Lancashire, England daughter Georgina Gray F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire, England grand son George Spruce M 2 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
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Post by annedw on Oct 29, 2012 16:59:00 GMT
I am still getting help from a kind lady on another site, so will write up what I have so far and post it here, it will save you looking for what I already have.
This does seem to be a match for John, but where did you find it, and are there any more details , images etc .
John Green Military Service 1853-1857 United Kingdom birthplace: Sussex birth year: 1830 (Merchant Navy Seamen Records)
Thanks very much for the help.
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Post by frankm on Oct 30, 2012 4:55:43 GMT
The military record I found at Family Search, no image. I looked at Findmypast and they had the same thing and there was an image. Not really any more information. Looks something like this:- Name and description - Age - Voyages Under Voyages, 5 columns with Out - Home for 1853, 1854, 1855, 1856, 1857 John Green Ticket no 284.607 age 24 Angmering In the home column 1854 what looks like 9.14.1 Vittova London Vefaie don Not a lot of help There is the other John Green (at least one) I have found in 1901 census and other places who was a seaman from the same area. I have found the other info at the other site now so will have a good look at it, quite a lot
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Post by frankm on Oct 30, 2012 6:08:58 GMT
From "Radcliff"
{1861 census John Green aged 30 born Littlehampton a mate on the ship Charles Napier moored ,Itchen River Southamptonshire registration district,Anglesey,sub district Holyhead
this John Green is still a mariner in 1901 so is possibly not your John Green}
I think this goes with the 1901 info in #12 so a red herring?
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Post by annedw on Oct 30, 2012 20:54:36 GMT
John Green baptism/christening date: 27 Jun 1830
baptism/christening place: Angmering, Sussex, England father's name: George Green mother's name: Elizabeth
I am sure this one is correct, both his marriages have George Green as his father,
But the records you found also seems to match ? 1854 minus his age 24 gives us 1830. Name and description - Age - Voyages
Under Voyages, 5 columns with Out - Home for 1853, 1854, 1855, 1856, 1857
John Green Ticket no 284.607 age 24 Angmering
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Post by frankm on Oct 31, 2012 6:40:14 GMT
Re #20 In the home column 1854 what looks like 9.14.1 Vittova London Vefaie don Did a search on Vittova and Mr Google asked me did I mean Victoria? He could be right when I look at it again also don could be Lon
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Post by annedw on Oct 31, 2012 11:25:15 GMT
have sent a PM
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