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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 10:49:31 GMT
I've found two baptisms from my Davies family in a register of the "Penuel & Gyfynus Independent Chapels" in 1831 and 1834 (RG4 Piece 3948 Folios 10 & 16). I'm puzzled because the family had close links to Wern Chapel. I know from this site that Wern had a permanent minister so I wonder why these two baptisms should have been in a different register, especially as both records give the family as living at Ffynonycwrw from where they definitely used Wern.
Any thoughts?
Keith
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Post by eluned on Jun 7, 2008 12:24:52 GMT
Hi Keith sorry I can't help but I would be interested in the locations of these chapels please. Lynn
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Post by annedw on Jun 7, 2008 14:02:46 GMT
OK, just found a Davies family site with this bit of info on it, so looks like it`s in Hope. Might be of interest to some body, it also has records from Wern. From looking at Genuki for Hope parish, the chapel might have actually been in Llanfynydd. gsdavies.net/familyhistory/family17.htmElizabeth Born: 31 AUG 1832, Wrexham Baptised: 24 SEP 1832, Penuel and Gyfynus Chapels Independent. Hope and Wrexham. Fl
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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 14:33:50 GMT
Given that this new info also gives both Wern and Penuel & Gyfynus entries, the link between the two looks a strong one. I know that some Methodist BMDs can be hard to trace because the registers moved with the minister as he went around the circuit and it crosses my mind we might be seeing the same here. If the minister based at Wern were indisposed or otherwise away from his duties, a minister from the local circuit might well be called in to substitute for him. I suppose we'll never know if the baptisms actually took place at Wern and the entries put into the circuit's register or if they took place at a different chapel altogether.
Does this make sense to anyone else?
Keith
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Post by eluned on Jun 7, 2008 15:02:59 GMT
Hi Keith, Yes it makes perfect sense to me. The majority of my family were Wesleyans which means the records have usually gone missing in the mists of time! Sometimes there are circuit registers as you are aware but these dates are particuarlly early so I guess there is even less chance of them having survived. Lynn
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Post by eluned on Jun 7, 2008 15:14:45 GMT
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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 15:39:34 GMT
Thanks to that link I've found a third member of the family in those registers, Davies Edward Davies junior , born in June 1828. That makes three consecutive children baptised under this regime, between 1828 and 1834. Interesting, the GS Davies website entries also sit in this period. That's a long time for something as simple as a substitution of an indisposed minister. I wonder what was happening at Wern at the time?
Keith
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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 16:08:16 GMT
I don't know how significant this may be but I've just been browsing on A2A to see what I could find. Lo and behold, it lists a contemporary Gyfynys Chapel register separately from the one we've found on the IGI and elsewhere. The register for the Gyfynys Chapel is RG4/3845 while the Penuel & Gyfynys register is RG4/3948. This URL also mentions Gyfynys and Wern and gives some idea of the origins of both: owensaw.homestead.com/BrynSeion.html. It also mentions Penuel and says that it was in Uwchymynnydd township in the parish of Hope. I think that is the area between Llanfynnydd and Bwlchgwyn. Keith
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Post by sharonbrown2 on Jun 7, 2008 16:25:56 GMT
Hi, Penuel chapel is just outside Llanfynydd on the way to Treuddyn. It has now been converted to a house. Some of the Baptism records are held at Hawarden (Flintshire) Record Office if anyone is interested. There is a also a graveyard at Cymau alongside the Chapel. I transcribed the burial records and handed them over to Hawarden Record Office. I believe the Baptism and Marriage records for Cymau are at Aberystwyth. Penuel I believe was the first chapel to be built in the area, then the Chapel in the Ffrith and last Cymau Chapel. I only know this as my ancestors the Smallwood's had a lot to do with the local chapel's. Hope the above info will be of use to someone.
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Post by eluned on Jun 7, 2008 16:27:21 GMT
Don't seem to be able to use the link Keith. It opens with a message to say it can't be found. And thank you for that Sharon. The Ffrith weslyan chapel is in the Coedpoeth circuit, for anyone interested.
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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 16:48:53 GMT
Hi, Penuel chapel is just outside Llanfynydd on the way to Treuddyn. For anyone who wants a closer look, if you enter Llanfynydd, Wrexham into Google Maps, where it places the A marker is where the chapel was. On the Old Maps site - www.old-maps.co.uk - if you search on Llanfynydd, Denbighshire and enter the coordinates 327500 and 356800 into the boxes and then enlarge the image you will see the chapel marked on the 1879 OS map. I don't know why that Bryn Scion page isn't working. I copied the URL to avoid mistakes. I found a similar page on the same site but that's disappeared now. Gyfynys, that one said, is on the outskirts of Brymbo. It also calls it Harwt if that helps. Keith
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Post by keithj on Jun 7, 2008 16:58:07 GMT
The link *does* work but not directly from this page for some reason. You'll find it by Googling for Bryn Sion Wrexham.
Keith
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Post by annedw on Jun 7, 2008 17:03:33 GMT
Baptisms at Wern were carried out by more than one minister, I have photos of the original registers and in the first few years there are about 5 named.
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Post by hilary on Jun 7, 2008 19:33:43 GMT
I have the book , in welsh, called the history of Harwt and Bryn Seion - it's all tied in with the Wern Chapel which whas spreading its wings, so to speak, so you're right on the connections.
Hilary - who reads the strangest books ......
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Post by hilary on Jun 7, 2008 20:11:46 GMT
Looking through the book, I get the impression that Harwt (or Gyfynys) and Penuel were a combined ministry. Harwt at the Bee Hive in Brymbo originally (new chapel built later) and Penuel at Hope.
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Post by hilary on Jun 7, 2008 20:15:18 GMT
PS The Bryn Seion page (google Bryn Seion Brymbo) explains it well; it's from the Brymbo and Neighbourhood Book and Graham Rodgers seems to have got his information by translating from the Harwt and Bryn Seion Book! Saves me a job! Hilary
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Post by ann35a on Jun 9, 2008 8:56:59 GMT
Harwt was possibly an area of Brymbo and earlier spelling of Harwd? Today Harwd Road runs from the Cross on the High Street to where the Mount Pub used to be near the Steelworks entrance. The Bee Hive was a shop on the High Street ( but probably not that far back?). Can't remember whether it was the shop at the Cross on the corner of the High Street and Brynffynnon Road (opposite the Chemist and the junction with Harwd Road) now a private house or further down on the other side of the High Street. Ann
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Post by hilary on Jun 9, 2008 16:57:43 GMT
Yes, you're right; some think it was called Harewood once, as well. I'm not quite sure where the Bee Hive was but there might be a map on the "bryn Seion" web site as there is a map in G Rodgers' book. Hilary
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