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Post by eluned on Aug 1, 2008 21:19:44 GMT
I have noticed there are some Jones Kellys in the Minera area ie. Robert Jones Kelly purchased a grave at the Wern. From school records he was b. 1865 and father Edward J. Kelly. There was also a younger brother Thomas J(o)s Jones Kelly b.1869. The family lived New Brighton. He also appears on the Wesleyan preachers list as Thomas Kelly Jones. Does anyone have them on their line?I have tried to see if I can find them and if I am correct the census has them just as Jones. 1871 New Brighton Edward Jones H M 40 Lead miner b.Minera Elizabeth W 27 b.Flint, Halkin and William 13, Robert 5, and Thomas 3, all b,Minera Francis Oldfield boarder. 1861 City Land Edward Jones H Wid 29 Lead miner b. Minera William Son 3 b.Minera 1851 John Jones H M 88 Chelsea Pensioner b.Minera Mary Wife 60 B.Minera Robert 23, Edward 20 both lead miners b.Minera
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Post by eluned on Mar 19, 2009 15:04:58 GMT
To add a bit more info, I have found a marriage St Giles 1816 by banns John Jones X miner, otp, wid Mary Kelly X otp, spin wit Enoch Rodgers X and Margaret Ellis X also 1861 City land Mary Jones 74 soldiers wid b.Llandegla Could this be the same couple? or am I just clutching at straws again ;D 1851 John Jones H M 88 Chelsea Pensioner b.Minera Mary Wife 60 B.Minera Robert 23, Edward 20 both lead miners b.Minera
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Post by eluned on Mar 19, 2009 15:21:56 GMT
1851 and next door to the Jones mentioned above Margaret Ellis wid 72 formerly livery manufacturer (can someone confirm that this says livery please?) I was thinking that if the Mary above is Mary Kelly, she may well be the daur of Thomas and Mary and so James' sister Far too many ifs at the moment Over to you Margaret!
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Post by eluned on Mar 19, 2009 15:35:14 GMT
marr Minera 1854 Robert Jones to Ruth Hughes Ruth seems to be the sister of Thomas Hughes who marries into the Kelly family and was another Wesleyan preacher marr Minera 1846 John Jones to Mary PowellDetails on redzone so not posted them all here.
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Post by margaret on Mar 20, 2009 15:06:44 GMT
Hello Eluned -
I agree that the Mary Jones (nee Kelly) could indeed be the sister of James. The age is about right b. 1789. The children Robert and Edward must have had older brothers and sisters since Mary & John married in 1816 and Robert was not born until 1827. I suspect that one of them would have been named Thomas. Again, the missing 1841 Census may have helped here.
Why would the school registration of Edward's children be under the names Jones Kelly ? Kelly Jones I could understand. There was also an older brother William who must have been born to Edward's first wife in 1859.
What is needed is proof that the mother of Robert b. 1827 and Edward b. 1831 had Kelly as her maiden name.
As to the word "livery" I also have a problem in deciphering this.
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by eluned on Mar 20, 2009 15:38:49 GMT
Hi Margaret, Thanks for casting an eye over this for me as two brains are far better than one ;D John and Mary have a son John marr Minera 1846 John Jones to Mary PowellPerhaps this is them in 1851 HO107/2503 f.723, Pg8 sch 24 John Jones H M 30 lab at limeworks b.Minera Mary " W M 30 b.Bryneglwys Miriam Roberts lodger un 21 invalide b.Bryneglwys Living next door but one to John and Anne (Kelly?) sch.23 We now need some baptisms with Anne's maiden name on I wish they'd use the Kelly name all the time and they would be far easier to track down ;D
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Post by eluned on Mar 20, 2009 16:07:03 GMT
Just when this appears to be coming clearer, well slightly perhaps same page in 1851 again, sch 22 Hannah Lewis H wid 32 pauper (miners wid) b.Minera Joseph " son 2 b." 1871 New Brighton and next door to Edward Kelly Jones Hannah still widowed but now 3 children in total Hannah Lewis H W 56 b.Esclusham Above Joseph son unm 18 lead washer b.Minera Thomas " 17 " b." Margaret " dau 14 b." But what is so interesting about Hannah is these two marriages St Giles 1841 Robert Lewis X bac, miner Minera, father Joseph Lewis, miner Elizabeth Kelly X sp, serv, Minera, father James Kelly, miner Wit George Berkly X and Hanna Hoper? X St Giles 1846 Robert Lewis X wid miner Minera, father Joseph Lewis, miner Hannah Kelly X sp, cottager, Minera, father James Kelly Wit Seth Jones X and Ellen Thomas So it seems both Hannah and her late sister bith married Joseph Lewis and then he also died. He wasn't allowed at that time to marry his wife's sister actually but obviously he did!
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Post by margaret on Mar 20, 2009 18:56:47 GMT
Hello Eluned -
I think that the James Kelly mentioned in the above marriages must be another one !
The daughter Hannah, of my James Kelly, was only born in 1834 and she married Benjamin Davies on 19 July 1852 (Ref:Red Zone). Her brother John Kelly was a witness, and as far as I know there was no sister Elizabeth. In 1851 she was still at home with her parents.
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by eluned on Mar 21, 2009 9:47:24 GMT
Hmmm I guessed James was another one ;D
The Kelly fog aint clearing is it ;D ;D ;D
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Post by annedw on Mar 21, 2009 13:54:54 GMT
1851 and next door to the Jones mentioned above Margaret Ellis wid 72 formerly livery manufacturer (can someone confirm that this says livery please?)
This looks like Linsey to me, it was type of wool, but where she would have worked or had a business I don`t know.
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Post by jojo on Mar 21, 2009 14:06:14 GMT
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Post by annedw on Mar 21, 2009 14:12:50 GMT
Llangollen maybe. www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/LlangollenLlangollen was predominantly a farming and agricultural area. The water mill opposite the railway station is over 600 years old and was used to grind flour for local farmers. Most of the farms in the hills around the town would have been involved in sheep farming and weaving was an important cottage industryindustry in the area for centuries. Several factories were later built along the banks of the River Dee where both wool and cotton were processed.
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Post by eluned on Mar 21, 2009 16:02:29 GMT
Thanks jojo and annedw I hadn't heard of linsey, but they do say you learn something new every day. Having taken another look I am sure you are spot on I wonder who she is and what is her Kelly connection ?
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Post by jojo on Mar 22, 2009 2:47:37 GMT
To add a bit more info, I have found a marriage St Giles 1816 by banns John Jones X miner, otp, wid Mary Kelly X otp, spin wit Enoch Rodgers X and Margaret Ellis X also 1861 City land Mary Jones 74 soldiers wid b.Llandegla Could this be the same couple? or am I just clutching at straws again ;D 1851 John Jones H M 88 Chelsea Pensioner b.Minera Mary Wife 60 B.Minera Robert 23, Edward 20 both lead miners b.Minera from Llandegla PR Dec 12, 1789 Mary KELLY (JONES) base d/o Griffith JONES and Margaret KELLY also baptism Nov 26, 1786 burial Dec 17, 1786 John KELLY (EDWARDS) s/o John EDWARDS and Margaret KELLY May 22, 1808 John KELLY (FRANCIS) base s/o William FRANCIS and Margaret KELLY Hope this helps Heather
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Post by eluned on Mar 22, 2009 9:01:27 GMT
Thanks Heather
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Post by tominera on Mar 22, 2009 14:05:16 GMT
Hi, I have noticed base child in a few records and came to my own conclusions, but maybe I am wrong to think these thoughts so would appreciate a positive explanation please from someone who really knows Thanks Tom
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Post by jojo on Mar 22, 2009 15:20:04 GMT
Hi Tom New English Dictionary by Oldhams Press, dated 1932 Baseborn 1. Born out of Wedlock 2. Of Humble Birth 3. Of Base Origin or Nature HTH Heather
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Post by tominera on Mar 22, 2009 19:53:08 GMT
Hi, Thanks for that and my thoughts were correct- Tom
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