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Post by hilary on Aug 17, 2008 17:37:19 GMT
I've spent this weekend typing up snippets of information that I've gleaned over the months. This is from April 1896:
3rd April 1896, at Wrexham, Mrs Mary Kelly, Llandegla, daughter of Mr Thomas and Anne Roberts, Hendy, Llandarmon yn Ial. She was 43.
It might be of interest, connected with a couple of other threads on the list,
Hilary
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Post by eluned on Sept 1, 2008 19:24:13 GMT
Just come across this family whilst wandering around Coedpoeth in 1901:
60, Nant Road,
Eliza Kelly H Wid 43 ------ maker b. Ashpool, Lancs William " stepson, S 31 B.Hanley, Staffs J. James Kelly Roberts, adopted son, 10 B.Coedpoeth
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Post by margaret on Sept 2, 2008 18:10:53 GMT
Eliza Kelly was the second wife of William Kelly (b. 1831 Minera) who was a son of James Kelly and Frances Blunt. William had died in 1900 and is buried with his father James at Minera Churchyard.
William's first wife was Miriam Jones - by 1871 William was a widower living with his now widowed mother in Minera. Miriam's death seems to coincide with the birth of their last child William in 1870. I have not yet worked out how he came to be born in Staffs.
After 1871 William and son William moved with other members of the Kelly family to Aspull, Lancs. and in 1875 he marries Eliza Hilton.
By 1891 William & Eliza have moved back to Nant Road, Bersham along with the younger William and an adopted son Joseph James Kelly Roberts aged 3 months. I have no records as to point to his likely parents.
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by annedw on Sept 2, 2008 19:34:44 GMT
Miriam Kelly born abt 1836 died 1869 Oct-Nov-Dec Stoke Upon Trent Staffordshire William Kelly born 1869 Oct-Nov-Dec Stoke Upon Trent Staffordshire Hanley is part of Stoke. If his father was a coal miner, then he had probably moved to Stoke to work there in the pits. Wigan was also a coal mining area that many North Wales miners went to to find work.
1861 Nant Bersham William Kelly 29 coalminer b Bersham Miriam Kelly 26 b Llanfair Denbs Elizabeth 4 b Bersham Frances 1 b Preesgwyn Shropshire.
Looking at Frances , she was born in another coal mining area popular with miners from our area, so I think that William moved around to where perhaps there was plenty of demand and the best wages could be earned.
A little info on the area from a coal mining site. Weston Rhyn Area a) Lodge or Preesgwyn, Furnace, Hall. Listed in 1860, also in 1891 (shafts 525ft and 354ft deep), furnace ventilated, used ponies and donkeys for haulage. Connected to the railway, closed about 1890 (AP 1890 - plans nos. 2710, 14905).
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Post by margaret on Sept 2, 2008 20:47:25 GMT
Thanks for this information. You are quite correct - there were three generations of Coal Miners in this particular family from James down to the younger William. Also most of James' daughters married Coal Miners. Regards - Margaret.
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 17, 2008 10:52:25 GMT
I thought Frances Kelly was born in Wrexham.The info on her birth in Shropshire gives me a new lead.Thankyou!!
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Post by annedw on Oct 17, 2008 11:06:52 GMT
Frances Kelly. Sep qtr 1859 birth registered at Oswestry.. Can`t seem to find her in 1871 though
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 19, 2008 16:32:24 GMT
I can't find her in 1871 either-though I can find William her father.I think she appears in 1881 in Hindley,Wigan as an annuitant and head of the family,living with her sister Miriam and daughter Lily Higson.I may be wrong-she is listed as Francis-male.I tend to believe it is her because I have come across so many errors in transcription,particularly of Welsh people and places.She certainly married a man called Higson who died young from consumpsion. I can't find her in 1891 or 1901 either-even with the new info on place of birth.
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Post by eluned on Oct 19, 2008 19:30:18 GMT
Hi anniebowen, Just to clarify for others wishing to help:
1881 Hindley, Lancashire Gregory's Yard Francis Higson H Mar 21 annuitant B.Ruabon DEN Lilly " daur 1 B.Hindley Miriam Kelly 16 sister unm card tender in cotton mill, B.Hindley
The actual image does list her as female.
What information do you have that may help the search? When did her husband die of consumption? Do you have her date of death? Did she remarry? What were their childrens names and ages? Where were they born?
I found this marriage; Fanny Kelly to Thomas Higson at Wigan and Leigh, Wigan register office or registrar attended. Sep 1/4 1878
Could this be her? Fanny Hickson b.abt 1857, Death reg March 1/4 1916 Wigan
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Post by margaret on Oct 19, 2008 20:10:19 GMT
I believe that after 1881 Frances Kelly/Higson marries again to a John Jones from Caernarvonshire. In 1891 they are living at Hebburn Colliery, Durham where Frances is described as being born at "Prins Cwyn". With them are four children, Edith & Annie, aged 11, Robert aged 3 and Jane aged 7 months. What has happened to Lily Higson ?
In 1901 they are in Hindley, Wigan with children Robert aged 12, Jane aged 8, and Marian aged 6. Her death is registered as being in Wigan in 1907. Regards - Margaret.
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 19, 2008 22:27:24 GMT
I haven't yet found Thomas Higson's date of death.A relative of mine said his first name was John but the only marriage record that I could find was one for Thomas-I'm fairly sure it is the right person.Frances did remarry a John Jones and it fits that they were in Co Durham as her sister Elizabeth lived there.Again,I haven't found their marriage yet.I was told by a cousin that Frances was killed by John Jones.However,the death certificate gives the cause of death as acute gastro-enteritis!I don't know where Lily was in 1891.She married a Thomas Carr in 1901.Annie married Daniel Bowen-a doctor-the same doctor who signed Frances' death certificate.I was told that John Jones became a vagrant after his wife's death and died in St Helens.
The census information is fantastic-thank you so much for your help.This site is brilliant.
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Post by eluned on Oct 20, 2008 10:02:09 GMT
Is this the marriage do you think? Frances Hickson to either John Jones or George Kirton Dec 1/4 1892 Sunderland This would mean that they weren't married but living in sin in 1891
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Post by eluned on Oct 20, 2008 14:10:27 GMT
1881 Hindley 28 Railway Street Thomas Higson H Mar 59 colliery plate layer, b.Hindley Sarah " W Mar 54 housekeeper b.Aspull, Lancs Catherine " dau unm 26 dom servant, b.Hindley Thomas " son Mar 22 colliery engine worker, "John " son unm 20 Sarah Ann " d 15 Mary Ellen " d 13 Edith " granddaur 8 Amelia " 8mth All single and b.Hindley Couldn't find a death registered that fitted with both correct age and an appropriate date so I had a thought 1891 28 Railway St, 3x families at same address but seperate households. Sarah Higson H wid 65 b.Aspull Catherine d S 36 housekeeper b.Hindley Sarah Ann d S 25 dressmaker " Mary E. " d S 23 cotton spinner " Edith E. " d S 18 """ Amelia "grandaur S 10 " Margaret " grandaur S 5 " ============= John Higson H Mar 30 butcher employer, b.Hindley Alice " W Mar 27 b.Hindley Edith d S 13mths ============= Thomas Higson H Mar 33 stationary engine tenter b.Hindley John " son 4 b.Hindley Annie " d 6mths "
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 20, 2008 14:35:34 GMT
Frances Hickson/John Jones could well be the marriage.Thomas Higson was probably dead by 1881 as in the census Frances is described as 'ANNUITANT' and head of the family.Living with her in a cellar in Gregory's Yard were Miriam Kelly her sister and Lily Higson her daughter. Thank you so much for your help.
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Post by eluned on Oct 20, 2008 14:42:58 GMT
Hi, It may be that Thomas was alive in 1881 cos Francis is listed as married. Although an annuitant she may not have received the money from Thomas Worth having an open mind!
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Post by eluned on Oct 20, 2008 15:12:57 GMT
Hi Anniebowen, There are other Thomas Higson's of around the same age so without a marriage certificate we cannot be sure. The marriage cert would narrow the search by showing fathers name and occupation. Who are you decended from? John Jones? Eluned
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 20, 2008 23:02:20 GMT
Hello Eluned-I'm descended from Frances' sister Elizabeth,born in Penygelli on11/1/1857.Robert,Frances Kelly's son by John Jones was my grandmother's first cousin.....it gets rather complicated!The family story of Frances'death is intriguing-I'm in the process of trying to find as much as I can about her. We were in Cefn Mawr last week researching earlier Kelly's.My grandmother used to say she was the only Welsh Kelly.The first reference I found for them was the marriage of Thomas Kelly and Mary Jones on30/10/1784.The name is obviously Irish-perhaps he came over when Minera/Bersham underwent rapid industrialisation in the mid 1700s.Ireland suffered a terrible famine in the 1740s so it is feasible that he was forced to seek work there.It is interesting that some of them married in St Giles as opposed to a Catholic church.I know that many catholics were coerced into becoming protestants due to persecution.I suppose we will never know!! But it's good fun trying to find out! Thank you again for your suggestions.
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Post by margaret on Oct 21, 2008 18:49:16 GMT
Here's another little piece of the jigsaw.
In the England & Wales Christening Records there is a Kate Lily Higson, christened in Hindley 30/06/1879. Her father was Thomas Higson and her mother was Fanny. This must be our Lily Higson. I then found her in 1901 as Kate L Higson, a Boarder, Occupation as a Coal Washer at Gaskell Terrace, Hindley. Her marriage to Thomas Carr was in Dec Qtr. 1901
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by anniebowen on Oct 21, 2008 22:08:40 GMT
I've learnt so much from this site in the last couple of days.It is wonderful!I speak often to the daughter of Robert Jones (the son of Frances)She will be so pleased with this new information.Apparently,when Frances died,the children were separated and the youngest 'given away'This family had hard lives. Thank you so much for your help
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Post by margaret on Nov 19, 2008 21:59:22 GMT
Early in this thread Eluned found a 1901 Census record which included a Joseph James Kelly Roberts - adopted son of Eliza Kelly, the widow of William Kelly living in Nant Road together with her stepson William Kelly(aged 31). They were also found together in 1891 when Joseph James Kelly was a baby. I already had most of the previous history of this family and curiosity took over !
Joseph James Kelly Roberts was born 10 Dec 1890 at Manley Row, Coedpoeth to Sarah Roberts, a domestic servant at Manley Row. Present at the birth was a Margaret Tudor. There was no father's name recorded. In 1891 I can find Sarah Roberts, a servant at a farm nr Oswestry where Margaret Tudor is living. Ten years earlier Margaret Tudor's neighbours are the Roberts family with Joseph Roberts as the head and Sarah one of his daughters. This would possibly explain the first name of Joseph given to her baby but why "James Kelly" as well ?
In 1910 Joseph James Kelly - the surname of Roberts has now been dropped - marries. Stated father's name was William Kelly (deceased) - probably his adoptive father William (Eliza's husband). His bride is Eliza Belton of 2 Bryn Nebo, Bwlchgwyn the daughter of Ann and Robert Belton (b 1852). The witnesses were William Kelly (adoptive brother?) and Mary Beatrice Belton (sister) and the marriage took place at Christ Church, Bwlchgwyn.
Having read with interest the Belton thread I have decided to leave well alone ! Far too complicated.
Regards - Margaret.
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Post by hilary on Nov 20, 2008 1:24:01 GMT
Interesting! I'll have to keep it on hold for a week or two when I've got some time, but that's an interesting story you've related. Ann and Robert Belton are my great grandparents so I have no direct connection with the older Kellys, but it will be interesting, though. Hilary
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Post by jojo on Nov 20, 2008 6:54:37 GMT
Early in this thread Eluned found a 1901 Census record which included a Joseph James Kelly Roberts - adopted son of Eliza Kelly, the widow of William Kelly living in Nant Road together with her stepson William Kelly(aged 31). They were also found together in 1891 when Joseph James Kelly was a baby. I already had most of the previous history of this family and curiosity took over ! Joseph James Kelly Roberts was born 10 Dec 1890 at Manley Row, Coedpoeth to Sarah Roberts, a domestic servant at Manley Row. Present at the birth was a Margaret Tudor. There was no father's name recorded. In 1891 I can find Sarah Roberts, a servant at a farm nr Oswestry where Margaret Tudor is living. Ten years earlier Margaret Tudor's neighbours are the Roberts family with Joseph Roberts as the head and Sarah one of his daughters. This would possibly explain the first name of Joseph given to her baby but why "James Kelly" as well ? In 1910 Joseph James Kelly - the surname of Roberts has now been dropped - marries. Stated father's name was William Kelly (deceased) - probably his adoptive father William (Eliza's husband). His bride is Eliza Belton of 2 Bryn Nebo, Bwlchgwyn the daughter of Ann and Robert Belton (b 1852). The witnesses were William Kelly (adoptive brother?) and Mary Beatrice Belton (sister) and the marriage took place at Christ Church, Bwlchgwyn. Having read with interest the Belton thread I have decided to leave well alone ! Far too complicated. Regards - Margaret. thanks for the info Margaret if I have the correct family Elizabeth Ann Belton was born c1876 I believe her mother was Ann(ie) DODD. In 1881 her father Robert was a lead miner and Publican - like so many others The pub was the Hwntw? Arms Inn Brymbo. ps There is a death of a James KELLY age 60 registered in the same quarter Dec 1890 that Joseph James Kelly Roberts was born. Perhaps Joseph was named in honour of him? Have also seen other "base" children sometimes named by the mother after the father of the child but in this case?
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Post by hilary on Nov 20, 2008 15:23:13 GMT
Robert Belton m Ann Dodd, for a while she had been in service at Nant y Ffrith Hall. They kept the Hwntw at Bwlchgwyn, amongst other things, for a while.
Hilary
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Post by hotwood on Nov 21, 2008 18:15:47 GMT
Hi
My great Great Grandparents were Roberts family Manley Road Coedpeth 1900 G Grandmother was Annie. his name I think was Edward. Perhaps Edwards parents siblings may hold the key.
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