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Post by eluned on Feb 24, 2009 12:51:23 GMT
Does anyone know where the "Smithy" was in Minera early 1800s please? Did it remain in the same place for many years? Any help welcome. I have confirmed from a map dated 1879, that the Smithy was located at Twenty Houses. but would like to know more about early Smiths.
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Post by eluned on Mar 1, 2009 17:48:13 GMT
In 1851 the Smithy was John Jones at Tai Newydd. Can anyone help me to locate it please? The address covers 4 pages. HO107/2503 f.743 pg.21/24 ModifiedI have looked at the enumerators route and note that towards the end of it comes "Twenty Houses" Could "Tai Newydd" be one and the same place?
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Post by tominera on Mar 1, 2009 22:23:24 GMT
Hi, At the bottom of 20 Houses (Southern End) is the pub Five Crosses and around the corner almost behind the pub was a Smithy mentioned in Cliff Davies book ---The Owens Family were involved when I was young and there is plenty about them on this site--realise this is rather vague but may spark a reply or two. Tom
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Post by eluned on Mar 2, 2009 9:12:15 GMT
Many thanks Tom Perhaps I shall find out more on my next visit
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Post by annedw on Mar 3, 2009 15:29:29 GMT
In Glyn Davies`s book `Not Long Ago` he states that there were three blacksmiths that he could remember. Owen Owens , Five Crosses. Jackson, Smelt. Jehu, Victoria Road in in the middle of the village.
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Post by eluned on Mar 3, 2009 15:34:45 GMT
I found the item in Pubs and Inquests, but even that confused me as it says 1900s. A typo I believe.
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Post by eluned on Mar 3, 2009 15:41:10 GMT
Hi Annedw, Thank you for your help. I had a PM kindly sent from someone with regard to another smithy in New Brighton, but I now think that the Twenty House one is probably the one I am after. I would still be interested to know if it was once called "Tai Newydd" but if I am right and translated it means New House, I guess it may have been once apon a time. ;D I did find a reference in the "Minera" book, to a John Griffiths in 1907 aka Jack Tai Newydd Does anyone know when Twenty Houses were built? Thank you
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Post by eluned on Mar 3, 2009 15:53:49 GMT
Just to clarify, I am interested in the Five Crosses one The 20 Houses consisted of beerhouse/Inn with 3 cottages attached and a further sepertate 17 houses and a smithy the public house "The Four Crosses" still stands on Ruthin Road but sadly the Houses no longer exist as they were demolished to make way for a new housing development Tracey The Twenty Houses, Brymbo Road, Bwlchgwyn, are a terrace of 20 stone cottages, and are still there today. (Tracey's 20 houses were attached from the gable end of the Five Crosses Inn pub, along Ruthin Road where the pub car park is.) There seems to have been two different locations using the same name
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Post by annedw on Mar 3, 2009 17:14:18 GMT
Twenty Houses , Bwlchgwyn is on the Brymbo Road, they are still there, and are not the same as the Five Crosses ones. First take a look at page 19 on the cencus, there is Joseph Chaloner in the Machine House, I`m almost certain I know where this is www.minerahistory.proboards78.com/index.cgi?board=location&action=display&thread=390 Now go forward to page 20 and you see Coedpoeth Machine House. Occupied by Robert Roberts, living with him is my Thomas Wilcoxon ( spelt wrongly ) I`ve been told that this is the one. www.minerahistory.proboards78.com/index.cgi?board=location&action=display&thread=515 Going back to page 18 and there is Gwern Y Gaseg named, this is near the Five Crosses. Carrying on after page 20 and it`s all Tai Newydd until the end of the schedule, possibly heading toward Coedpoeth. There are a large amount of houses though . Maybe they `ll show on the Tithe Map dated 1843, some of the occupants should be there, and I would expect the landowner to be the same. Have found this in one of JC Davies`s books Five Crosses smithy was called Twenty Houses at first, because until 1840 there was no road to Talwrn, so it wasn`t 5 Xs but only 4Xs. The smithy was in what is the mens toilets opening on to Gwern Y Gaseg Road, I think the Four Crosses that Shedevil mentions may be the pub in Bwlchgwyn , now called The Moors. Also think that Glyn Davies is correct in saying 1900`s , going by his age, 1901-1965
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Post by eluned on Mar 3, 2009 19:00:21 GMT
Hi Annedw and thank you so much for all the info and links. It is all helpful and with some more information from the Tithes, I may be able to confirm the findings.
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Post by tominera on Mar 3, 2009 20:52:26 GMT
HI, I have quite a good pic of the twenty houses and pub if you would like a copy--taken just before they were demolished Tom
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Post by eluned on Mar 3, 2009 21:20:53 GMT
I would love a copy thank you Tom ;D
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Post by llosgi calch on Mar 3, 2009 23:39:57 GMT
HI, I have quite a good pic of the twenty houses and pub if you would like a copy--taken just before they were demolished Tom Email me a copy also please Tom admin@minerahistory.com
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Post by abeer on Mar 4, 2009 9:24:44 GMT
Hi all, I can vaguely remember the twenty houses Minera from when I was young - they ran from the end of the Five Crosses car park almost to the level crossing where the road forks for Bwlchgwyn and the Old Road. There was a shop at the bottom nearest the Five Crosses and were really dilapidated. They were demolished to make room for the Minera Industrial Estate as I recall.
Alison
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Post by eluned on Mar 4, 2009 9:32:07 GMT
Thanks Alison Its great to see everyone inputting on the thread, its been so quiet on the site recently Perhaps everyone is beginning to come out of hibernation now that, hopefully, spring is here.
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Post by tominera on Mar 4, 2009 18:33:31 GMT
Hi Alison, Just to help your memory-- The row you remember was Victoria Terrace with a pub on the northern end named Victoria Vaults and a shop on the southern end nicknamed Foukes's there was a gate along side shop to allow access to rear. Immediately to the south of the gateway was a milestone which is still there (approx on the boundary of FWB and Minerra B Supplies) and it is exactly one mile to by what was the Three Mile Inn in the Adwy Also I have a pic of the Terrace with advertising board outside the shop. The shop was owned by Mrs Ffoulkes who I believe came from Carrog and run by her son-in- Law Ieuan Roberts Tom
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Post by abeer on Mar 4, 2009 19:15:54 GMT
Hi Tom, My memory is probably a mix up of what my grandmother told me as a young child. I didn't realise that there were two terraces along there! Alison
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Post by tominera on Mar 4, 2009 21:51:32 GMT
Hi Alison, Join the club for confused memories as I am the president Sending you some pics by E mail Tom
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Post by llosgi calch on Mar 5, 2009 19:46:35 GMT
Diolch am eich llun Tom. The pics are now on the minera section homepage.
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Post by aroberts on Mar 8, 2009 10:00:40 GMT
Alison
I am a bit confused by this. I can remember going into a shop on the Ruthin Road but I thought it was higher up than this. The people that ran the shop were related to us I thought.
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Post by aroberts on Mar 8, 2009 10:02:35 GMT
I would love a copy thank you Tom ;D Tom My Mother and Fatherr in Law used to live in these houses. I have PMd you my E Mail Address. They would love to see a copy I am sure. Andy
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Post by abeer on Mar 8, 2009 22:48:10 GMT
Hi Andy, Apparently the people who ran this shop were related to us but I don't know how yet except the Carrog clue of course! You must have a good memory ;D ;D - you were really young when it got demolished !! I have it on good authority (mum) that a relative of ours lived in the 20 houses - near the five crosses - called Auntie Jonathan - no one can remember her first name but she smoked a pipe and wore a mans flat cap Her husband was Jonathan Davies Roberts our Great Uncle from Canol-y cae, Eryrys b 1888 in Pant ddu. Roll on the 1911 census for further information, Alison
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Post by ann35a on Mar 10, 2009 20:40:14 GMT
I've just enjoyed reading these postings having not visited the board for a few weeks. I grew up in this area and spent many childhood hours watching the blacksmith at work. As people have said the smithy was behind the five crosses pub on Gwern-y-Gaseg Road as also were the shipons where the Owens family, who owned the smithy as well as the pub, also kept their cows which grazed the field behind the houses on the right hand side of Ruthin Road towards Coedpoeth. Others may remember playing in this field too. At the Smelt end was the bonc, grown over spoil from the lead mines, which was a great area to play.
I think there was a heavy horse at the smithy for many years though whether he worked the bellows or was just stabled there I can't remember. I think the smithy continued working until it was demolished in the 60s? to make way for the new houses. (I'd 'left home' by then). I have a vague recollection of the woman Alison describes who had a flat cap and smoked a pipe. ( In the 40s or 50s, would this be right?) and of several women sitting outside the twenty houses chatting on summer evenings.
Tom, is the photo of the twenty houses that is now on the site complete or are there houses on the right on the other side of the cross roads on the original? If so it will fit well historically between the two five crosses photos already on the site as it will show houses on the right but still none on the left. The field on the left had formally been part of the colliery but by the 40s / 50s was the Owen's hayfield. I have happy memories of haymaking here.
Thanks everyone for another trip down memory lane. Ann
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Post by abeer on Mar 10, 2009 22:34:01 GMT
Hi Ann, She would have been born around 1890 and would have been 50 or 60 by then - no miracle face creams in those days!! My mum said she was really scared of her for some reason - probably the pipe was a bit off putting to a small child. I'm glad its brought back fond memories, regards, Alison
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Post by tominera on Apr 7, 2009 17:04:49 GMT
Hi Ann, Please forgive me but I had not realised exactly what you were on about re the 2 photos of 5 crosses on the site (The penny takes longer to drop nowadays) You are absolutely right re the houses on the right which are not on my pic but that is purely down to where my pic finishes. If we were able to swing right you would have seen the 5 crosses Garage and Owens Billiard Hall and then several nice biggish houses which are still there with any gaps that would allow new developments being filled in with a new house since. Tom
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Post by tominera on Apr 7, 2009 21:03:48 GMT
Hi Andy & Alison, I have checked el list for 20 houses in 1937 and the only Johnathan I can find is a Johnathan Thomas & Mary Thomas living in No 1 which is unlikely to be yours----however I can tell you David Foulkes, Gladys May Foulkes, Annie Blodwen Foulkes and George Foulkes lived in Victoria Stores in 1936 and in 1949 Ieuan Gwilym Roberts had married Annie Blodwen and was living and working in the shop with no mention of the other above 3 Foulkes's ---Tom
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Post by abeer on Apr 8, 2009 10:39:19 GMT
Hi Tom, Jonathan Thomas with a wife Mary (nee Hughes) does feature in our family tree but it is on a different side to what I was expecting - he was born 1880 and was a cousin to my great grandfather Stanley Wynne if I am correct. The info I received was a bit mixed up again so there is some truth in the Auntie Jonathan bit at least!! Alison
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Post by aroberts on Apr 14, 2009 8:00:25 GMT
My memories were correct. MMy Father in law wjo used to live in the terrace is categoric that the terraced houses were demolsihed and the shop left to stand alone.
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Post by tominera on Apr 14, 2009 17:03:35 GMT
Hi Andy, As far as I am aware no one has said the shop did not exist as a single unit at one time. I clearly remember it standing alone after the terrace was demolished and it continued trading for sometime(but I do not have a clue re the timescale). I can tell you that in 1961 Herby Harrison(ex Victoria Vaults) had taken over the Tyn-y-Capel in Minera and I would hazard a guess this was because he was aware of the impending demolition of the Terrace. However at least 13 of the other houses plus Vic. Stores had their occupants registered to vote in 1962-63. I fully realise this is not absolute proof, but its my best shot. We have wandered a bit with this thread and I would just like to mention I have established that there was a Smithy in Coedpoeth approx where the clinic stands on Smithy Rd. ;D Should have known this really--- Tom
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