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Post by cyngorra on Aug 28, 2006 12:53:10 GMT
I am looking for sources of information which might help me locate details of a Simon Jones who died in 1868 at Minera in an accident at a lead mine.
The details of the death certificate are as follows:
Death on 17 November 1868 at Minera, Wrexham, of Simon Jones, 41 years old, a lead miner.
Cause of death: "From an accidental explosion of gun powder in a lead mine."
Informant: "Information received from Bevis H Thelwall, Coroner for Denbighshire. Inquest held 21 November 1868."
The death was registered on 24 November 1868.
I have looked at the Denbighshire Record Office on-line index and suspect that local newspapers will be my best hope for more information on the accident and on this Simon Jones. Are there any other sources which anyone would suggest I consider?
My goal is to try and find more information on Simon as I think it probable that he is my great-great-grandfather. At least, his details are consistent with the information which I have been able to build up (slowly) over the last year, following the path of his son, also Simon. This leads from where I live - in Mountain Ash in the Cynon Valley, South Wales - back to Minera, Bwlch Gwyn and Llanarmon Yn Ial.
Any advice gratefully received.
Thank you.
Dave Jones
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Post by shedevil on Aug 29, 2006 11:53:35 GMT
Hi Dave and Welcome to the Boards ;D
I have looked through the Pubs & Inquests book for you which was written a while back by J Clifford Davies who is a local historian but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything mentioned regarding an explosion at a lead mines in 1868. Without any further information as to where Simon was living at the time, I'm unable to offer any real help with advice of where to look, I would assume that there was an inquest held regarding this accident as Mr Thelwell the coroner is mentioned frequently throughout the book.
It also seems that the necessity to keep records regarding any accidents did not start to be recorded at Minera Lead Mines until 1871 which in your case doesn't help the situation much. I'm assuming that the Lead Mines he was working at were Minera Lead Mines? does it give any more information on the Death Certificate.?
I did find a Simon Jones born C1825 to a Simon and Margaret Jones who both lived in Broughton but this is not necessarily your Simon
If you could provide a few more details we may be able to help you further.
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Post by annedw on Aug 29, 2006 13:08:38 GMT
There is an index to inquests that are held at Ruthin somewhere . I can`t recall where I found it, I think it was Hawarden Record Offfice. Anyway , I found that there was an inquest for a member of my family, and was able phone Ruthin and to order a copy. It may be worth you actually ringing Ruthin, they may be able to help especially as you have the date of the inquest.
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Post by cyngorra on Aug 30, 2006 15:39:58 GMT
Hi, shedevil,
Many thanks for looking at the Pubs and Inquests Book - a pity there is no mention of the accident but looking into my family history has taught me that persistence plus disappointment equals success. Or something like that.
The only location given for the death on the certificate is "Minera, Wrexham" which is not of great help. Three of the children of Simon Jones - Simon (junior) aged 20, Gabriel aged 15 and Margaret aged 12 - are shown on the 1871 census at Bwlchgwyn. I know from Gabriel's marriage record in 1875 that the father had died by that date.
Birth records indicate that the mother is Catherine Jones, formerly Owens. There is a death record for a Catherine Jones at Plas Gwyn, Minera, in 1867 - she was married to a Simon Jones at the time of her death but clearly this might not be mine.
There is a census record for a Simon and Catherine Jones at Rhiw Yale, Llanarmon in 1851. This is of interest as Simon Jones's birth certificate shows the place of his birth as Rhiw Yale, Llanarmon. A marriage record, from 1848, for a Simon Jones and Catherine Owens shows their residence as Esclusham Above and his father as "Gabrail".
In this context, the reference for Simon Jones born in C1825 is interesting, though not consistent with the details which I have built up so far. However, given the pitfalls in researching a name like Jones, I will bear it in mind. (I am cautious to the point of inertness when it comes to making definitive judgements about what I know to be true, what I think is true and what I don't know is true but might turn out to be so anyway.)
My hope at the moment is to find out what happened to Simon and Catherine Jones.
Thank you for your welcome to the board.
Dave
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Post by cyngorra on Aug 30, 2006 15:47:56 GMT
Annette,
Thank you for your suggestion re the record office. It is a good idea and I will make enquiries.
Dave
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Post by annedw on Aug 31, 2006 15:09:22 GMT
Hi Dave, I`ve been at the Wrexham Museum today, and while waiting for my `stuff` to be found had a quick look at Minera Parish Registers. I don`t know if this is any help, but the names Simon and Gabriel Jones are mentioned.
Minera Marriages. 1874 July 25. Banns. SIMON JONES. MINER ( SIG) AGE 23 BATCHELOR OF PENTRE BAIS, S/O SIMON JONES. MINER married CAROLINE BURTON AGED 24 OF GORS, SPINSTER D/O ROBERT BURTON .MINER. WITNESSES. GABRIEL JONES , DORCAS ELLIS. BOTH SIG.
I also have an entry for another marriage in 1873 where Simon and Caroline are witnesses, and the details of Caroline Burtons baptism. If you want me to put these on I will, I didn`t find Simon Jones buried in Minera.
Annette.
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Post by annedw on Aug 31, 2006 17:19:49 GMT
While I have time to spare I`ve had a look again at this and realised that if the marriage IS of YOUR Simon, and if Gabriel is his brother , their father Simon must have been alive in July 1874 but dead by 1875. I`ve found a Simon Jones died at Ruabon in 1875. ref RBN/26/9 on the NW free BMD. Also in the 1881 census I found Caroline Jones, aged 31 , b Wrexham with head of H/hold Simon Jones aged 29, leadminer b LLanarmon, with son Robert S aged 1 born Dolwyddelyn. Caernarvon. The next household is Robert Burton, 57 leadminer b Wrexham wife Ellinor Burton 57 born Corwen and Jane daughter, aged 14 born Wrexham. These two households are both Scotland St, Llanwrst.
I found the baptism of Caroline Jones nee Burton in Minera Registers. 1849 Aug 25. Caroline Burton, d/of Robert Burton, collier and Ellinor Of Minera Parish.
It seems then that Simon and Caroline , along with her parents all moved to LLanwrst.
Hope this is of use, and also hope I`m not looking at the wrong Simon. If it seems to be the correct one died 1875, I can easily look at the Ruabon Parish Register and see what comes up. I only live a couple of miles from Wrexham and it`s no trouble at all.
Fingers Crossed !!!!
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 1, 2006 11:19:14 GMT
Annette,
First thing to say is a big thank you for the details which you posted.
The Minera marriage of Simon Jones and Caroline Burton is indeed correct. I received the certificate for this recently and also noted the presence of Gabriel Jones and Dorcas Ellis. Interestingly, Gabriel married Dorcas the following year at the Register Office.
The 1881 census record for Simon Jones at Llanrwst is one which I also believe to be accurate. The following year, 1882, Simon and Caroline had a child, Catherine Ellen Jones, also at Scotland Street. Caroline died in 1885 and Simon came to Mountain Ash, where I live, remarrying in 1888. The 1891 census shows him with his second wife, Ann, as well as Robert S and Catherine E from his first marriage.
(Gabriel and Dorcas also came to Mountain Ash at about the same time. Margaret, their sister, followed, though perhaps a little later in the 1880s.)
In terms of Simon Jones (senior), the entry at Ruabon is interesting as the marriage record for Simon and Caroline, in 1874, does not state that Simon, (senior) was deceased, though the record for Gabriel’s marriage to Dorcas on 10 May 1875 does. So, it seems clear that Simon (senior) had died by this date.
Was Simon (senior) alive at the time of the earlier, 1874, marriage? I am uncertain as I have similar instances where fathers are not shown as deceased on a marriage record but later turn out to have died years earlier. Also, the census record for 1871 does not show Simon (senior), nor his wife. You mentioned that you have an entry for another marriage in 1873 where Simon and Caroline were witnesses – is it possible for you to post this or can you point me to where the information is located? It is the sort of information which I wouldn’t expect to find – Simon and Caroline being witnesses to someone else’s marriage a year before their own appeals to me.
Again, I am grateful to you for the details which you located.
Dave
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Post by annedw on Sept 1, 2006 14:56:50 GMT
Here we go, Minera Parish Registers. 1873 Aug 9. Moses Griffiths 22 miner. Plas Coed, Minera, s/o Thomas Roberts, miner. married Sarah Ann Salisbury 21 d/o Josiah Salisbury, stonemason. of Gladstone Arms , Pentre Bais. witnesses Caroline Burton , Simon Jones.
NB, I have not made a mistake with Moses surname, The transcripts that have been done for these registers have an index showing ALL names in the records, so apart from the couple and the fathers, the names of the wittnesses are also there,
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 2, 2006 14:01:58 GMT
Annette,
Thank you for this fascinating piece of information!
As to the identity of Simon Jones, I have printed off a form for the Denbighshire Record Office to ask for a search. Time - hopefully - will tell.
Thank you.
Dave
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Post by llosgi calch on Sept 2, 2006 14:58:13 GMT
Very interesting thread... And Im also very impressed with Annette's investigation's... This thread sums up what these site boards are all about! Looking forward to this thread continuing.
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Post by annedw on Sept 4, 2006 21:23:07 GMT
I had an hour to spare today so popped in to the Museum to have a look at newspapers, the only one that covered 1868 that is in WXM is the WXM Advertiser, and as the BIG STORY was the General Election of VS Gladstone / Disraeli there was little news of anything else, no inquest on a lead mine accident. Also I had a re-check of Minera PR, but what I posted before is all there was. Ruabon PR`s are not available in WXM for 1874/5 , so couldn`t look for that . Llanarmon is available up to 1812, if that is any help. Good luck !!!
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Post by shedevil on Sept 5, 2006 7:13:31 GMT
Annette, Just a little pointer, you will find that until just before the 1860's part of Llanarmon came within th district of Ruthin and part within Maleor Flintshire so when someone had expressed their place of birth as being Ruthin it culd be that it was because that would have been the registration disrtict they were born so in this case although Simon was most possibly born in Llanarmon but gave the area he was born as Ruthin for official returns. Hope this helps with any reasearch your doing.
Tracey
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 6, 2006 14:03:07 GMT
"Thank you" does not do justice to my appreciation for the time and quality of Annette's research on this matter but I do not have better words. Thank you, Annette. As an update for anyone interested in this matter, I've sent the details of the 1868 death of Simon Jones to the Reseach Service of Denbighsire Record Office. I have my fingers crossed (which doesn't make typing any easier). Should any information come of this, whether Simon is placed in my family or not, I will post it here in case it might be of use in someone else's research. As well as searching through the census and BMDs again, I've also tried the International Genealogical Index using the Hugh Wallis batch number website at www.tinyurl.com/ugcu. This brought up the christening of a Simon Jones on 21 October 1827 at Llanarmon Yn Ial, Denbighshire, father Gabriel Jones, mother Margaret. This is of interest to me as the marriage certificate of Simon Jones and Catherine Owens - said marriage taking place at the Parish Church, Wrexham, on 8 February 1848 with both residing at Esclusham Above, ages given as "full" - shows Simon's father's name as "Gabrail". A possible corruption of Gabriel? Or a distinctive name in its own right? (A brief look at BMDs and census records does show a few entries for such a name - I will look at these in more depth.) On the 1851 census, at Rhiw Yale, Llanarmon, there is a Simon and Catherine Jones, both 23 years old, with a daughter Jane, 2 years old. On 6 January 1852, a son, also named Simon, is born to Simon Jones and Catherine Jones, formerly Owens, at Rhiw Yale, Llanarmon. Gabriel follows in 1855 and Margaret Catherine in 1860 (she being born at Bwlchgwyn, Minera). I cannot find the family on the 1861 census, despite page by page searches. On 11 April 1867, I have a death certificate for a Catherine Jones, at Plas Gwyn, Minera - 40 years old and the wife of Simon Jones, a lead miner. The informant is Hannah Jones; no family relationship is provided. On 17 November 1868, there is the death - the subject of this thread - at "Minera, Wrexham" of Simon Jones, 41 years old. At the time of the 1871 census, and unable to find the parents, I have located three people whom I believe to be the children of Simon Jones and Catherine Owens - Simon and Margaret Jones boarding with a family, and a Gabriel Jones boarding separately (the next entry on the census and, probably coincidentally, with a Hannah Jones.) Leading me back to 1871 are the marriage, death and census records of Simon, Gabriel and Margaret Jones, all of whom were in Mountain Ash by 1891. The details which I have put together - added to by the investigations of Annette (who has been not only kind but accomplished) - appears consistent but, prior to 1871, not definitive. Whether it ever can be is something which time will tell. In the meantime, I have sent for two certificates relating to the 1851 census record. The above has been longer that I would have wished but might be of interest. Dave
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 14, 2006 16:50:01 GMT
I've had a reply from Denbighshire Record Office but, sadly, they have no information on the death or subsequent burial of Simon Jones.
Dave
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Post by heaffey on Sept 20, 2006 10:52:30 GMT
Hi Dave Have just signed up to this messageboard today and was very surprised to see this conversation. I also have been wondering what happened to Simon Jones senior and was about to order a death certificate as I had requested recently a lookup on rootschat.com for any information but had had no success. So thankyou I know now what happened and that chapter is closed. I have been researching this family tree for about two years although I must confess my aunt started doing all the hard work at least 5 years ago. It was only last week I discovered that your Simon Jones existed after reading the parish records and marriage of Simon and Caroline on this website which stuck out as the marriage was witnessed by Dorcas and Gabriel who are my great great grandparents. Gabriel was living in 1871 with Hugh and Hannah who I believe are Simon seniors brother and sister in law. Simon senior had 6 siblings that I know of - Catherine 1818,Gabriel 1822,Sarah 1825,Hugh and Margaret 1832 and Evan 1836 all whom were born in Llanarmon yn Ial and the parents were Gabriel (1785 ?) and Margaret Jones(born 1790 Llanbedr. Hope this has been of some help Clare PS Still have relatives living in Mountain Ash
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Post by heaffey on Sept 20, 2006 11:02:02 GMT
Hi Dave me again,
Forgot to mention that the Hannah shown on Catherine Jones death certificate is the same Hannah that I spoke of before on the 1871 census ie the aunt of Simon and Gabriel etc
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 24, 2006 13:31:28 GMT
Clare, Hi! I am so surprised to read your message – it was only a few months ago that I discovered Simon Jones (jr) had a brother. Simon Jones (jr) was my great-grandfather. At the time I began looking into my family history, all I knew of him came from family records, which were fairly good from 1888 – the time of his second marriage – onwards. But in terms of information about him pre-1888, there was little that could be gleaned apart from the fact that he was a widower when he re-married and that his father Simon was deceased. The name Gabriel was known to be a significant one within the family; in 1893, a son, Gabriel, was born to Simon and Ann (his second wife). Sadly, he died within the year. The next son born, in 1894, was also named Gabriel and was my grandfather. I only became aware of Gabriel Jones and Dorcas Ellis when I saw them as witnesses on the 1874 marriage certificate for Simon Jones and Caroline Burton in Minera. I discovered that Gabriel and Dorcas married in 1875, were in Pentre Bais in 1881 but in Penrhiwceiber in 1891 and 1901 (though Dorcas had died between 1891 and 1901). Their marriage certificate confirmed Gabriel’s father was Simon Jones (sr). At Aberffrwd Cemetery, Mountain Ash, I located Gabriel and Dorcas’s grave. It had been exciting to follow their path from Minera to Mountain Ash but seeing Dorcas’s name at the top of the headstone was an emotional moment. I knew that the family was in the area but seeing it in the record was one thing, finding the headstone another. From the headstone, I learned that Gabriel had died in 1918. Simon (jr) had died in 1921. The informant on both death certificates is Owen Roberts, brother-in-law. This led me to Margaret Catherine Jones, born in 1860 at Bwlchgwyn to Simon Jones (sr) and Catherine Owens. Owen and Margaret Roberts are also buried at Aberffrwd Cemetery and have a headstone, though it is on its back. Coincidentally, it was only yesterday that I received a copy of the 1813 to 1837 transcript of Llanarmon Yn Ial Parish Registers from Clwyd Family History Society. The details correspond with yours (noting that the 1832 entry is Hugh and Evan, twins), though the transcript does not appear to include the baptisms of Catherine in 1818 and Gabriel in 1822 (which was a puzzle to me as, though unaware of Catherine until your message, I had expected a Gabriel born at Llanarmon in 1822 given the 1851 census). The burial records show the burial of Evan, 1 month old, in January 1833. Also, the burial of Gabriel Jones, 53 years old, in May 1837. Margaret Jones I have tracked from the 1851 census through to 1871; not difficult as she remains at Rhiw Yale throughout. Her last appearance is in 1871 at 80 years old and shown as a “lead miner’s widow”. Interestingly, the Wrexham council web site has a section relating to Minera - www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/heritage/minera_lead_mines/index.htm#introduction - including a photograph captioned “Miners from Llanarmon-yn-Iâl ready to go down the mines at Minera.” In a further coincidence relating to your message, following receipt of the parish register transcription I was discussing with my parents the possibility that the Hugh and Hannah Jones on the 1871 census were related to the family, Hugh possibly being the same person shown in the parish records as a brother to Simon (sr). Then I read your message and your comments on the same topic. My parents hope to travel to Minera and Llanarmon-Yn-Ial in the coming weeks, just to see the area. I have to say that it was a shock – in a good way - when I told my parents that we had heard from the great-great-granddaughter of Gabriel and Dorcas. Thank you. It is great to hear from you and I hope the above isn’t too repetitive of what you already know. Dave
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Post by heaffey on Sept 25, 2006 12:37:51 GMT
Hi dave
I've been hoping you would revisit this site soon and was very interested to hear of your investigations. We didn't know anything about the graves so my mum is very excited and planning a trip very shortly to visit. Both her and my aunt (still a Jones!) are going to North Wales next week to continue the research. Not sure but I would imagine they will be looking at Gabriel and Margaret seniors records.
I have details of Catherine Owens (Simon seniors wife) birth details if you don't already have them and basic parent names etc. I didn't know about the entry for the twins Hugh and Evan 1832 as I was only given the info about a Evan born in 1836/37 but it may be the same person. I have been in touch with a great lady through another website (who incidentally lives in Llanarmon yn Ial) and is also researching this family tree as she is a relative of the Catherine Jones born 1818. You were unlikely to come across her birth records because she was born round 7/9/1817 to Gabriel and Margaret out of wedlock. Her baptism took place in llanbedr Dyffryn Clywd and they didn't marry until 19/10/1818 in Denbigh. She also told me that she had got the burial records of Gabriel senior and that he as you said died in 1837 in llanarmon. We've been to look at the graves but there is no trace of any relatives but I must say it is a beautiful village and surrounding area. Not sure if you know this but apparantely Gabriel senior was a twin to Evan (same names all the time!!!) and born in LLanamon 1784 to parents Thomas and Catherine. My friend is a bit confused about the Thomas bit as neither of Gabriel and Margarets children were named Thomas to her knowledge but she will be looking into this in the future. Hope I haven't confused you too much or repeated myself but I get pretty confused myself with everyone having the same names. Hope your parents enjoy their travels and I'll post anything further that we find out.
BFN Clare
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 27, 2006 13:31:56 GMT
Clare,
I did not know that Gabriel (1784-1837) was a twin - my research lags behind at this point.
To clarify the details I posted about Evan and Hugh - the details I have from the Llanarmon Yn Ial parish register transcription shows the baptism of Evan and Hugh Jones, twins, to Gabriel and Margaret Jones in December 1832. There is also the January 1833 burial of Evan Jones, 1 month old, son of Gabriel Jones. In May 1836, Evan Jones is baptised to Gabriel and Margaret Jones.
This suggests that the name Evan was not allowed to die in 1833 with the burial of Evan as another son was named Evan in 1836, thus carrying the name forward.
All I know of Catherine Owens comes from the marriage certificate and the 1851 census. This gives me her father’s name as John, her birth in about 1827. Any details you can add would be appreciated.
As to the graves in Aberffrwd Cemetery, Mountain Ash, I have photographs of them. The photos consist of the three headstones - Simon Jones et al, Gabriel Jones et al, Margaret Roberts et al - and show the headstones as a whole plus a series of close-up photos intended to document the inscriptions (in Welsh) on the headstones.
The inscription on Gabriel and Dorcas’s headstone reads (using a guide to Welsh inscriptions as I do not speak Welsh):
In memory of / Dorcas Jones / wife of Gabriel Jones / Penrhiwceiber / who died February 2 1895 / aged 38 years old / Untranslated verse / Also of Laura Ann Jones / who died February 15 1898 / aged 22 years old / Untranslated verse / Also of Ceinwen, dear daughter of the above / who died December 6 1907 / aged 16 years and 11 months old / Untranslated verse / In loving remembrance of / Gabriel Jones / who died January 26 1918 / aged 62 years old / Untranslated verse.
One point of curiosity - last week I “joined” (in a non-subscriptive way) Genes Re-United. I am uncertain about the value of the site - my parents subscribe to Ancestry and it seems pretty comprehensive - but the other day I did a search for family members on the site. Very little came up - to my mother’s disappointment - but I did get hits on Simon Jones sr. Are you the same person on that site?
My parents will hopefully be heading up to Minera, etc, in the next few days. I am not sure what they will focus on - I think this is being left open until they get there. They will certainly be visiting the parish churches and I know my father is looking to learn about the life his grandfather, and beyond, would have had as a lead miner.
As to Llanarmon Yn Ial, I read on the Clywd Powys Archaeological Trust web site, referring to the church at Llanarmon Yn Ial, that “The churchyard was cleared of many stones in the 1960s and some were used to revet the bank of a stream nearer Llandegla.“
Re the deaths of Simon and Catherine Jones. It does not appear that Simon was buried in Minera, nor his wife. Do you think they could be buried in Llanarmon Yn Ial? It’s a thought which occurs to me though I recognise it might be misplaced; why would they bury outside the parish they are living in? Then again, given the family ties to Llanarmon Yn Ial, why not? I’ll try to check this further.
Dave
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Post by llosgi calch on Sept 27, 2006 17:44:56 GMT
Looking through Llyfyr Mynwent of Capel Y Wern, by JC Davies it lists two Simon Jones being buried there. Sadly the booklet does not list dates, only names, but it would well be worth a visit to clarify. This cemetery is at the Wern, Minera.
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Post by heaffey on Sept 28, 2006 10:15:15 GMT
Hi Dave Thanks for the details of the headstones. I wonder who arranged for the inscriptions on Gabriel/Dorcas headstone. I didn't realise Laura and Ceinwein had died so young. Margaret their sister was my Great grandmother and she sadly died in Mountain Ash in 1922 when my nan was only 9, leaving her to care for her father and brother. Robert, Gabriels eldest son had also died in 1917 in the flanders war. On the subject of Catherine Owens I only know a bit from my aunts investigations some years earlier but the details are as follows: Born. 13 April 1826, Ty Mareiog, Gwddelwern and baptised 14 April Bryneglws. From memory on the latterday saints website it is listed under Sion Calvinistic Methodist church. Her father is John Owens and as you already know he was a labourer. I am unable to trace back further than this. Catherines mother as also Catherine (no surprises there!) and surname was Jones. She is born c 1789 and is on the 1841 census with her daugher only at the same address. No marital details have yet been searched for. You are correct in saying that on Genes reunited I am shown. This is where I have been in contact with other distant relatives that are also researching the Jones family tree. We have checked the churchyard in Llanarmon for headstones but sadly we didn't find any connected to our family tree. As you say they may have been used for other purposes in the 60s. I think I remember reading somewhere that there was once another churchyard in Llanarmon but is no longer there. So who knows. Re the deaths of both Simon and Catherine. This is a mystery as to where they were buried. I know we checked the gravestones in the church in Minera and where unable to find any. At this stage however we were not aware when either of them had died. Trying to think it through logically we know that they lived in Minera - Gabriel was born in a cottage Ty Gwyn ( still there today and is very pretty) and that from Catherines death certificate the address is Plas Gwyn which fits in with the 1871 census. Also you mentioned Simons death certificate states Minera. Hopefully the cemetery at the Wern will prove positive. If not I will explore a bit further. There is also the possibility that they are in unmarked graves.
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Post by shedevil on Sept 29, 2006 20:47:01 GMT
on reading your posts I have become interested i your Catherine Owens, She originated from the same geographical area as my Owen Owens. The earliest reference I have to my Owens are in Llandderfel Merionethshire and later in Gwddelwern which is nearer to cerrig y drudion. My Owens were blacksmiths by trade and I have reason to believe that John Owens who's wife was Catherine was my 4th Great Grandfather's brother (Owen Owens born c.1789). This I have still yet to confirm. My Owen Owens moved to Llanelidan to a place called Bryncme which is within the boundaries of Llandegla and Llanarmon y lal. The majority of my Owens family were Blacksmiths If there may be a connection please let me know. Tracey
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 30, 2006 15:41:39 GMT
llosgi calch
Thank you for the references to the Simon Joneses at the Wern. My parents will pay a visit when in the area. It will be worth chekcing this through further.
Clare,
The details on Catherine Owens were very interesting. I have the 1841 census entry for Catherine Owens but was not pursuing it any further at this time as I was unclear as to the location shown for her household. That had me put it into my “Uncertain” folder. Now that I’ve seen your message, I am able to make sense of the address.
My parents are leaving for N Wales tomorrow. They will only be there for a few days but all of that time will be spent exploring the locations shown on various records. A visit to explore the cemetery at the Wern will also be made.
It is exciting to know that the Ty Gwyn shown on Gabriel’s birth certificate is still there some 150 years on. Simon (jr) was born on 6 January 1852, at Rhiw Yale, Llanarmon, which would make him about three years, seven months old at the time of the birth of his brother at Ty Gwyn, Minera, in August 1855. It’s quite something (which is clumsily put but I might otherwise spend all day trying to find the right words to express myself.)
I have an aunt to whom I pass on the details of the research which I have been doing – copies of certificates, etc. When my mother told her about Gabriel and Dorcas, she said that there is someone in the family named Dorcas. I am waiting to hear more about this.
Dave
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Post by cyngorra on Sept 30, 2006 15:46:06 GMT
Tracey,
Missed your message when replying.
I don't know if Clare can add to what she has posted as she has more details than myself. I've made a note of the details of what you've eposted - it would be interesting to see if there is a link.
Dave
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Post by annedw on Oct 1, 2006 6:59:45 GMT
Hi Dave, I have been away for two weeks, and am amazed at what has turned up for you. I have a copy of the grave register for Wern and the two entries for Simon Jones may possibly be for the same person. Graves on RH side of path Row 13. grave 11. Siman ? Jones, Nant hen Gareg. "" """ Row 17 grave 16 Simon Jones, Nant hen Gareg. Remember the names are only of the plot owners, and others could be buried in that grave.
The grave yard itself is quite near to the Minera lead mine centre, at the side of a few houses . It is difficult to spot as the chapel has gone, but there are some steps in an stone wall and an old gate, This is the starting point for the grave rows. I have the complete list of plots, and am free in the afternoons, I live about 4 miles from Coedpoeth, so if your parents would like any help then I don`t mind helping them find the place. I hope they have taken wellies with them, it is very overgrown. .
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Post by annedw on Oct 1, 2006 8:06:12 GMT
Hi, me again, Other names of people in the reguster who have the same place name, Nant Hen Gareg are Mary Jones, Ellis & Will Jones, Thomas Jones,
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Post by cyngorra on Oct 4, 2006 10:54:28 GMT
Annette,
Hi - nice to hear from you again.
Thank you for the information - I confess to finding it difficult to make sense of it straight away (my head).
I have relayed your kind offer to my parents but am unsure if it is too late for you; I do not have internet access at home (no phone) so only saw your message when I checked last night at my parents' home. I am very sorry for that.
My parents are coming home tomorrow, having spent their time in Minera, Llanarmon and Wrexham. I can't wait for them to come home with their photos and stories.
This thread did take a surprising turn - not something I would ever have expected. It's been good to share and confirm information. I am grateful for the existence of this board.
Dave
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Post by Rhiannon on Oct 7, 2006 17:00:50 GMT
Hello Dave,
I've nothing to add to this topic unfortunatley but I just wanted to say that I am searching for my ancestors that also came from Minera and Denbighshire and ended up in Mountain Ash ( looking for work in the pits I suppose ) where I am from, I use to live at Strand Street, Newtown and my father still does, plus I have lots of Auntie's, Uncle's and cousin's still living about the Mount and the Ceiber, I'm living in Spain and it is always nice to see your home town being mentioned in one way or another.
I wonder if there was some notice that went up in the Wrexham area advertising or requireing men to work in the South, the Mountain Ash area being one of them ?
All the best with your search.
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Post by annedw on Oct 10, 2006 16:37:56 GMT
Hi Dave, I`m sure your parents will have told you by now that our search in the jungle that is known as Wern Graveyard was unsuccesful, we failed to find the graves that were owned by Simon Jones, they could be under about two foot of vegetation and until the burial registers are seen then that will have to stay a mystery. I had a look at the original Minera registers on microfilm today and there is definately nothing there, also I found the original Ruabon Parish Church register, and there is no entry in 1868 /1875 for Simon Jones , as a last resort I tried St Giles, Wrexham, but no luck there. We seem to be running out of Parish Churches that cover the dates , maybe Llanarmon Yn Ial or even Bryneglwys, where Catherine was born might be a long shot. Apart from these the only thing I can think of is that they had become non-conformist, perhaps someone else might have some ideas. It`s really annoying to have found so much and be stumped.
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