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Post by sceptrelady on Nov 27, 2006 23:36:55 GMT
I've been rooting around my Carrington tree again and found a Barbara Carrington 1823-1898. She married an Edward Belton, sons were Edward Belton c1855 and Thomas Belton c1860. Does anyone have any connections to Beltons? I notice a reference to an Edward Belton in the 1909/1910 chapel record thread.
Barbara was a daughter of John Carrington & Barbara Jones, sister of my ancestor Francis. I have Barbara senior's death cert. from 1868 if anyone is interested. Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 18, 2007 1:11:11 GMT
Hi,
I'm a Belton from Bwlchgwyn! How can I help?
Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 19, 2007 17:55:18 GMT
Hello Hilary.
Thanks for offering to help. I was just curious if there were any Beltons in the area who were related to this Barbara Carrington Belton in my tree. Are you connected to this branch of the Beltons, either Edward senior or junior or Thomas??
Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 19, 2007 21:31:48 GMT
Hi Heather,
I have found Edward Belton (1822-1879?) who married Barbara (Unknown), 1820-1898. The dates seem to match?
Her husband, according to my software, is my half 2nd great-granduncle.
Ar your Carringtons alson the Carrington-Edwards? I remember Menna Carrington Edwards, and I think my father knew most of the Carrington/Carrington Edwards.
Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 20, 2007 14:33:02 GMT
Hi Hilary It looks like there might be a connection. I have Barbara Carrington 1823-1898 marrying Edward Belton 1823-1872, but have been unable to locate a record of marriage for this couple on NorthwalesBMD or Ancestry Do you have that information? My gen program says Barbara is my 2nd great grandaunt, through Barbara's parents John Carrington & Barbara Jones. If you would like to exchange more information, please send me a personal message for my email address. I don't think I'm familiar with Carrington-Edwards. I will do some more digging and let you know if I come up with anything further. Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 20, 2007 23:13:03 GMT
Hi,
I'll have a search around - the original research was done by some Belton relatives, and I'll probably email you privately,
Hilary
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Post by hilary on Feb 21, 2007 0:44:47 GMT
HI again,
Don't know your private email, but on northwalesbmd there is Barbara Carrington married Edward Belton (or Robert Jones) in 1844 at Wrexham St Giles, Ref Wrexham, St Giles Wrexham C.B. C45/02/156
Bye for now, Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 21, 2007 3:59:49 GMT
Thanks Hilary Guess I was looking too late - for some reason I had it my head 1850 something I've sent you my email by pm If you want some Carrington info just let me know. Heather
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Post by Hen Locsin on Feb 25, 2007 17:13:04 GMT
Hello Sceptre Lady I have a few Beltons in the Tree. Starting with William b1810 Llandegla, the children of whom were Thomas 1847, Mary 1849, Robert 1852, Elizabeth 1854, William 1857, and David 1860. The 1871 Census shows that the family were living at Pantyfor Bwlchgwyn. Any connection? Hen Locsin
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Post by hilary on Feb 25, 2007 20:07:05 GMT
Hi,
you are connected to Sceptre Lady and to my family.
The family you mention is particularly interesting because Thomas, Mary and Robert are half- or step- brothers to Elizabeth and William, there were other step/half brothers, Thomas and Isaac.
The father, William Belton of Llandega, was first married to Sarah then, after she died, he married his brother Robert's widow, Ann Price. However the dates don't quite match up and our best thought is that either Robert "was elsewhere" for a few years before he died, or perhaps that he had been unwell for many a year before he died.............
Cheers Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 26, 2007 17:29:07 GMT
Hi Hilary I'm curious to know how Edward Belton (1823-1872) ties in to Hen Locsin's William Belton b1810 Llandegla.
I think I've now identified all the children of Edward Belton & Barbara Carrington as follows John, born c 1846 Isaac, born c 1848 Mary, born c1850 Edward, born c1855 Alice, born c1858 Thomas, born c1860
The Beltons remind me of the Carringtons. Lots of children using the same first names LOL. I've found several Beltons in the Minera baptisms 1786-1820 and the Bishops Transcrips 1772-1785 if that would be helpful.
Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 26, 2007 19:08:44 GMT
Hi Heather,
The quick answer is that they are all on the same piece of paper in my filing cabinet......now I'll follow the lines and see where they lead!
According to my tree, Isaac, William, Robert and Edward, four brothers, were all the sons of Isaac Belton 1778-1851 who married Elizabeth....
When Elizabeth died, Isaac married Mary Berkley....
their 4th child, Edward Belton married Barbara Carrington....
apparently, this makes William Belton of Llandegla the half brother of Edward Belton, husband of Barbara
What a convoluted story this is! Isaac marries Elizabeth, their William marries the widow of their son Robert; Isaac marries again and further increases the family, looking at it again with fresh eyes, there must be about 12 half-siblings, all assorted!
Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 26, 2007 23:52:45 GMT
Isaac must have been quite a guy. I found his birth on the Bishops Transcripts for Minera, along with sisters Elizabeth, Ruth, Mary and Sarah, all father George (miner) and also on the 1851 it looks like him and Mary farming 90 acres in Hope Flintshire at the age of 77 - I guess all those children and two marriages kept him young and strong. Or maybe he learned to stick up for himself from an early age since it looks like he was the only boy!
Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 27, 2007 1:08:17 GMT
It's nice to have the story fleshed out a bit! The family tree I have only gives names and dates and no locations - but I'll be greateful for what I have. Most of it has been double checked; this bit, especially, has also been researched by some descendents of Isaac's second wife, Ann Price.
Best wishes Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Feb 27, 2007 9:32:04 GMT
Hilary & Hen Locsin Don't know if you are aware, but there is a probate record available for Isaac Belton ref SA/1852/62 available from National Library of Wales. Might be an interesting read for seven pounds - especially if the estate was being divvied up between all those children! May cost even less in the UK.
Heather
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Post by hilary on Feb 27, 2007 12:35:58 GMT
That's interesting - will spur me on to look into the family more.
Thanks, Hilary
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Post by hilary on Feb 28, 2007 2:05:22 GMT
Heather and Hen Locsin,
There's nothing like a good mystery and, knowing that Isaac Belton was from Llandegal (is he the only belton buried at Llandegla Church?), how did he get to be farming at Hope in 1851?
A trawl through the census and modern maps and old maps online, and I have found his farm: the census area of Hope extended all the way to Rhydtalog (next to Llandegla) and his farm, Waen Fawr, was on the west side of the Four Crosses (Bwlchgwyn) to Rhydtalog Road (The Liver), just past the little bridge over the river; the river is the boundary between the Denbighshire and Flintshire boundaries. He had either 40 or 90 acres (couldn't read the census for certain) and that would all seem to be on the west, or Llandegla, side of the road.
The will should be interesting, I'll consider that over the next week or two; thanks for the clues,
Hilary
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Post by Hen Locsin on Feb 28, 2007 14:51:58 GMT
Hilary & Sceptre Lady, Thanks for all that.............I think! ???I've been busy trying to tie in some of these additional names, half brothers & sisters and 2nd spouses, to the tree, and think that I have it licked? :PThanks also for the info on the probate, and may speculate on this at a later date. I guess Isaac must have had a fast horse & trap! Hen Locsin
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Post by sceptrelady on Jun 9, 2007 10:25:36 GMT
Hello Hilary & Hen Locsin I'm confused. I was working on the Belton family part of my tree and found that a Robert BELTON died in 1863 and a marriage between William Belton & Anne Belton in 1864. Sarah Belton apparently died in 1860 - probably giving birth to the last child David. So wouldn't the family that Hen Locsin outlined, all be the children of the first wife of William? or did he have another wife in between? Heather
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Post by hilary on Jun 9, 2007 19:56:18 GMT
Heather, all your dates match exactly, and, yes, your supposition is sound. Now, I haven't seen the birth certificates but others have and I shall look it all up next.
The gist of it all is that the parentage of the last three children is in dispute, bicycles, ponies and traps and cosy nights in have all been blamed for this strange state of affairs whereby it is a possibility that william fathered the last of the children who were born to Ann whilst her husband Robert was alive! William's first wife, Sarah, only appears to have had two children, Thomas 1835 and Isaac 1839.
I'll send this reply off and then I'll have another search through my files to see if I have anything more precise.
Hilary
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Post by sceptrelady on Jun 9, 2007 22:27:45 GMT
Thanks for replying Hilary They certainly are a very confusing family I thought the Carringtons were hard to figure out but the Beltons win hands down ;D Heather
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Post by jowright on Jun 15, 2007 13:36:58 GMT
Hello I am researching the Roberts family of Bwlchgwyn and I have Seth Roberts b 1874 Bwlchgwyn - father Edward mother Ann Roberts formerly BELTON. She was illiterate and her husband was a lead miner.. There was another Seth Roberts born there in 1877 and I don't know whether I'm on the right track - however, I hope Ann is of interest to you! Jo Wright
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Post by hilary on Jun 15, 2007 14:15:24 GMT
This is interesting - there are a couple of Ann Beltons on the family tree that I inherited but none of them are shown as being married, or married to an Edward Roberts. I will have another look this evening, but I think this is a connection that I haven't come across before!
I am also interested in two separate families of Roberts from Bwlchgwyn to Brymbo. Do you have a Dorothy Roberts, do you have an Ishmael Roberts or a Mary Anne Roberts, both around the 1860-1870s?
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Post by hilary on Jun 16, 2007 18:14:03 GMT
Thank you for putting me on the trail of Ann Belton, it proves to be quite interesting.
In 1871 Ann and her husband Edward are, as you mentioned, living at Maes Maelor. Next door to them lives Enoch Belton and his family. I wondered whether Ann and Enoch might have been brother and sister?
Another search of my family tree shows that Enoch did not have a sister called Ann, but he did have a sister called Hannah who married (husband not stated) c1855.
There is no wedding of Ann or Hannah Belton to an Edward Roberts or to anyone else, in the full bmd indexes. However, the North Wales BMD does show Hannah Belton married to either Edward Belton or Edward Bowen in 1854 - just nicely timed for the birth of their first child, Thomas, the following year.
As Ann and Hannah are so often interchanged as names, I'm hoping that this is the mother of Seth Roberts, in which case her ancestry can be traced back a further 4 generations.
I've still got a bit more digging to do yet, though, as I can't find Ann in 1861 and she was visiting the Kellys in 1851, and I must track down Enoch just to be sure!
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Post by eluned on Feb 12, 2008 13:51:05 GMT
I have a photo of what I beleive to be (not had it translated yet) Coepoeth circuit Wes. chapel prize giving. 1901 There are two Beltons: Harriet, Bwlchgwyn Gwladys A, Bwlchgwyn Its a photocopy but if anyone is interested, please let me know. Lynn
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Post by aroberts on Jun 28, 2008 8:54:21 GMT
Isaac Belton was my wife's Great Great Great Great Grandfather.
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Post by hilary on Jun 28, 2008 17:01:01 GMT
Then she and I are probably cousins of some kind. I am descended from George and Catherine via their son Robert, whilst John Belton was a descendant of their son Isaac. George and Catherine were my great great great great grandparents.
Do you know the next generation down from Isaac?
Best wishes, Hilary
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Post by eluned on Jun 28, 2008 17:16:34 GMT
I think I may have a Belton link too! ;D I have a George Belton b.c.1813 Llandegla, father Issac, farmer. He marries Ann Kelly at St Giles, July 8 1848. Does anyone know if these two had any children?They lived Minera 1851. I will do a search when I come over in a couple of weeks but any extra help is always appreciated.
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Post by hilary on Jun 28, 2008 19:05:06 GMT
The most likely Isaac that I have is Isaac Belton 1778-1851 and his second wife Elizabeth Williams, They have known children born in 1809 and 1814 (or 1812) and it could have been possible to slip another inbetween....
Otherwise I haven't got a George or an Isaac that matches - which is rather strange, really, as the father is Isaac Belton, farmer, of Llandegla.
I found your ref, to them in 1851, but not in 1841 (though ancestry was playing up and findmypast seemed a bit vague tonight). Any more clues?
Hilary
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Post by eluned on Jun 28, 2008 19:42:20 GMT
Hi Hilary, I havent been able to find them in any other census. 1841 is missing, 1861 missing in parts and not found them 1871+ I have found deaths registered that could possibly fit Ann Sep1/4 1852 George Dec 1/4 1867 Lynn
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