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Post by gogs on Oct 30, 2008 19:58:51 GMT
Hi, colcon, Re. Robert/Ellen wedding 1873............. Robert was living in Llangegla and was a labourer.
Gordon
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Post by colcon on Oct 31, 2008 9:51:41 GMT
Hello Gordon
Pressing on, I note from Reply 88 that you will be meeting up with Trevor Davies quite shortly. Hopefully, you will see this before then.
As far as I can see, the only other B/M/D certificate worth getting is a death certificate for Robert Davies (initially an application to Wrexham RO as spelled out in my Reply 73) since the place and date he died will greatly help in tracking down his burial place (as previously suggested to you in my Reply 62 0ct 20).
By coincident I had already mentioned ( in Reply 90 prepared in advance before I had seen your Reply 88) that the B/M certificates for the 3 half-sisters seemed unnecessary. Also surplus to requirements would be, for example, the B/M/D certificates for Robert Davies' step- parents in law and Sarah Jones' birth certificate (ie all of the Bala certificates). All completely unnecessary in connection with Trevor Davies' own ancestry.
As the marriage of Robert Davies' parents was in the Llandyrnog Parish Church ( St Tyrnog ), I can get the full details when I'm next in the Ruthin area (visit delayed until the weather improves). They married in 1842 - John Davies and Anne (already a Davies surname before her marriage).
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Post by colcon on Oct 31, 2008 14:24:36 GMT
Back again
Young Robert 'groom' at Berth, Llanbedr 1861 census - definitely s/o John & Anne Davies, Pont-horn, Llandyrnog.
The lad would have been quite familiar with horses as his father's occupation 1861 census was 'Coach Man domestic Servant' and clearly working for the Williams family on their large farm/estate -Ystrad, Llandyrnog, Denbigh.
Mary Anne Williams, the 'lady' at Berth, Llanbedr 1861 census was the 'lady of the house' at Ystrad, Llandyrnog 1851 census and must have taken young Robert under her wings at the time (or soon after) she moved from Llandyrnog to Llanbedr.
Ysrad (Llandyrnog parish) - part details 1851 census as follows:
William Williams Head 49 Farmer of 312 acres;employing 10 labourers Mary Anne Williams Wife 48 John Williams Son 19 Farmer's son
Plus 6 male servants and 2 female servants at Ystrad on census night
The male servants included: husbandman, carter, ploughman, cowman, etc The 2 female servants: a cowmaid, and a house maid
As you will see from the above details, William Williams (1861) employed 10 labourers on the farm/estate, but only 6 male employees (plus the 2 female servants) at Ystrad on census night. That is some of the others working there lived elsewhere. (Take pity on the one house servant at Ystrad with all that lot there.)
At Pont -horn, Llandyrnog 1861 census were: John Davies (age 49), his wife Anne(47) and 4 of their children - Mary(11), Jane(8), Henry(6) and George(3).
As indicated above, John Davies' occupation 1861 census was 'Coach Man domestic Servant' and no doubt about it he would have been one the others of the 10 labourers employed by William Williams at Ystrad.
Pont-horn was probably a 'tied cottage' on the Ystrad farm/estate.
As yet I have not found John & Anne Davies anywhere at all in the 1871 census but they were not at Pont-horn. 1871 Pont-horn - 2 parts: both uninhabited.
In your Reply 57 for the 1851 census you gave: John (agricultural labourer) - born Llandyrnog, and his wife Anne (age 25??) - born Denbigh.
In 1861 census 'where born' vice versa, that is: John Davies - born: Denbigh, and Anne - born: Llandyrnog.
William Williams, Ystrad, was born on Angelsey (as was his son John) but his wife Mary Anne Williams was born (around 1803/04) at Nailsea, Somerset (a few miles south-west of Bristol).
In Reply 41 I mentioned that William Harnaman ( Ellen's grandfather and Trevor Davies' greatX3 grandfather) was born in Somerset. He was born at Wraxall, Somerset (born there around 1795). Wraxall is a tiny hamlet on the outskirts of Nailsea. It's a small world. William Harnaman and Mary Anne (later surname Williams) might well have known each other!
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Post by gogs on Oct 31, 2008 15:32:53 GMT
Hi colcon, Well done. Brilliant detective work
The census I have is for 1851 and gives...... John Davies 38 Agric Lab. born Llandyrnog Anne 35 " Denbigh Thomas 7 " Llandyrnog Robert 5 " " Mary 1 " " at Ponthorn Llandyrnog
There must have been a slip up on one of the census reported re. place of birth.
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Post by colcon on Nov 1, 2008 10:36:49 GMT
Hello Gordon and all the Minera ladies
Here's a trick for you all to try which I was unable to post in time for Halloween night.
In connection with Gordon's ( and possibly other's) unsuccessful search in the 1901 census for John Davies please undertake a search as outlined lower down.
The known details include: Name/surname - John Davies; Male; Born - 1873/74 (1873 plus or minus 1); Born - parish of Llandegla, Denbighshire, Wales; 1881 census - age 7 and in Llandegla parish; and, 1891 census - age 17 and in the Minera parish.
Hardly any of these known details are required for the purpose of this exercise. Only needed - the name and surname; and the incorrect spelling for the name of the parish where he was born.
To find John Davies in 1901 census:
Country : leave it as 'All'. (That is, do not specify Wales; or Denbighshire for parish born or residence.)
Name/surname: enter - John Davies
Parish /place born: enter - Llandgla ( Note well: Not Llandegla but Llandgla; I repeat Llandegla without the 'e' )
Press: Search, and wait for the Result
It's magic!
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Post by gogs on Nov 1, 2008 11:10:41 GMT
Hi colcon, Tried that but got error message. 1901 search was not unsuccessful. He was found in lodgings in Southsea Wrexham with a family named Dean
Gordon
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Post by annedw on Nov 1, 2008 18:18:34 GMT
To: gogs Eureka! Found John Davies 1901 Census He was with a boarder with a family named Dean at 5 Bridge Steet, Southsea(Bersham parish),near Wrexam. John Davies Widower 27 Colliery labourer B: Llandegla . We already had this from October 13th. There was no need to do a search. Does A****y library version have different transcriptions from A****y we use, just that you have Llandegla here, and suggest for us to search for Llandgla
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Post by tominera on Nov 1, 2008 20:59:57 GMT
HI, A John Davies aged 65 yrs (Ty Brith, Minera) is buried in Coedpoeth Cemetery Plot No 1424-- 7 7 1939 LW IMG 9900--dob correct with Sarah Catherine 58 yrs bur. 28 1 1933. also Norma Maureen Davies 8 Months bur. 25 11 1944. I am not certain, but I think this is the Late Cliff Davies,s Grandfather and if so I am pretty sure they came from Llandegla and there are surviving relatives still in Minera and Coedpoeth. Appreciate this could be a complete red herring (so proceed with caution) and if so--my apologies Regards Tom
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Post by gogs on Nov 2, 2008 13:34:52 GMT
Hi colcon, Two items of note. 1) Re. Eistedffod cottage................. I noticed in 1891 census that the cottage of Robert Davies is next door to Eistedffod farm
2) on same census the family next door are ROBERTS. Probably the ones that Jane visited in 1901
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Post by colcon on Nov 3, 2008 16:14:33 GMT
Hello Eluned in particular Sorry Eluned ( your Reply 101 refers) but I had no intention of offending you in any way. I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say in Reply 91 in the reference there to your Reply 77. In Reply 77 you gave the tip that can can be useful for people with a*****y and in my Reply 91 I was merely indicating that (as I do not subscribe to the 'fee charging' a*****y ) I was not in a position to test your useful suggestion about rechecking the NW BMD marriage details listing 4 names on a page. Being fortunate to live in the next street to my local library ( and not having a computer at home) I do not have the need to use the 'fee charging' ancestry site for the 1841 to 1901 census details, which is therefore the reason I use the www.ancestrylibrary.com site for these details, which I believe is available at all UK libraries (ie those with computers) and also, for example, at the Ruthin and Hawarden record offices. I should also mention that it was the first line of your Reply 77 which encouraged me yo carry on with my researches on Gogs's behalf.
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Post by colcon on Nov 4, 2008 11:42:06 GMT
Hello Annedw in particular
Before responding to your Reply 102 I should mention that it has been my intention for a while to come back to you concerning some of your other replies.
So here goes. Concering your Reply 59, all I can say is may be I should change my reading glasses. Having looked at it again, the name looks like 'Buchley Road'!
Concerning your Reply 63 and in particular to your remark: "1841?? Clocaenog isn't a parish as such so what would cover it." The reason you could not find it is simply that the 1841 census details for the Clocaenog parish (like so many other parishes including Minera) are just not available.
As for the names of the Census Enumerators for the various Clocaenog censuses (where you say in Reply 63 " this might save .......time looking at Clocaenog"), anything that saves some time when I visit the Ruthin Records Office obviously helps. However, I would be interested to know where you obtained the names of the various Enumerators as listed.
Speaking for myself I find it interesting to come across some examples of my own ancestors' hand writing even if it is only, for example, their own signature in a parish marriages register. It's a link with the past and like having a family heirloom passed down for say 150 years.
It makes a change from regularly coming across 'signature by the mark X of' etc. It was for this reason I thought it would be interesting to discover if Joseph Harnaman, Clocaenog, was one of the parish's Census Enumerators.
There is a typing error in my Reply 60. In the first paragraph where it states "In Reply 26 'annedw' mentions that ......" it should have been "In Reply 46 ......."
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Post by gogs on Nov 4, 2008 12:51:54 GMT
Hi colcon, Got the marriage cert. today Re. Robert Davies and Sarah Jones. Disappointed !!! I have ........ Robert Davies 28 Bachelor labourer Pen y Bryn, Llandegla son of John Labourer Sarah Jones 22 Spinster Pen y Bryn dau David (Farmer)
Our Robert was a Widower and should be aged 32 and living at Tan y bryn Back to the records for more searching!!!!!!! Unless you have any more thoughts
gordon
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Post by annedw on Nov 4, 2008 13:23:26 GMT
Piece 5224 Folio 128 Page 10 1901 As transcribed by An**** Davis Morris The previous page has Norman Road. Following page has Nelson Street. www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.039335&lon=-2.989804&z=16.5&r=0&src=mslI know the area; I lived there for many years and had relatives in Beechley Road. It does look like Buckley or Buchley Road, but I can assure you it is Beechley. In your reply 58 , You`ve put David Morris down, David Morris Head 31 Bankers' Clerk B: Bootle,Lancs Gwladys " Wife 27 B:Holywell,Flints David Oliver " Son 1 " " Ann Davies Serv Single 21 Servant Domestic B:Minera,Denbs but he is transcribed as Davis, unless as I asked about the Llandegla / Llandgla search , does An**** library version and An**** home version have different transcriptions. When I searched for David Morris , I couldn`t find him, but eventually found Davis Morris. I thought David would be easier to find than Jane Davies , with no spouse as an added clue. Again, why` Gordon and possibly others had an unsuccessful search` for John Davies even after you found him on Oct 13th is that you put b Llandegla, but it seems that it`s transcribed as Llandgla. I’ve transcribed parish registers for various organisations and it can be tricky. This is the way you are supposed to do it, 3 4 5 are especially important. 1. Only work for 1 – 2 hours before taking a break! 2. Poor handwriting, faded, or near illegible entries will need more time spent on them so have patience don't be tempted to rush. 3.`Write what you see and not what you think Transcribe faithfully... errors, misspellings, and all. 4. Don't fix names, dates, etc. 5. Be careful to interpret handwriting correctly as some letters can look similar. In these cases, look at handwriting of the same letters in other words before making a decision and even ask for a second opinion. You are recording what is there not what you think should be there. This is why searches often fail, what you or I know to be Coedpoeth, can look like Coodpeeth, Ruthin like Rubbin, Ruthin and Ruabon are often confusing, but the transcribers must not put what they know, but what they see. What happens then is when we eventually find the record, we say, `but that should be Llandegla not Llandgla,` It`s up to the searcher to make the decision as to if it`s the correct place or not. You don`t need new glasses, neither do I, but my advantage over you is having knowledge of the area. No tricks , but very frustrating. To find the enumerators name, simply choose your district and then` View the description of the enumerators route`. This is exactly what it says, his route and then the name of the enumerators assigned to the area. Concerning your Reply 63 and in particular to your remark: "1841?? Clocaenog isn't a parish as such so what would cover it." The reason you could not find it is simply that the 1841 census details for the Clocaenog parish (like so many other parishes including Minera) are just not available This will explain why it wasn`t on list of parishes for 1841 then.
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Post by llosgi calch on Nov 4, 2008 13:39:42 GMT
Just a quick message here - as I am puzzled... ...does the site have a problem with the word 'Ancestry' ?
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Post by annedw on Nov 4, 2008 13:50:57 GMT
It doesn`t , it`s not the dreaded `naughty `word thingy, just that I thought we are not supposed to `advertise` A bit like not copying and pasting from their census transciptions. I`ve had my wrist slapped for doing that on R****c**t , ;D
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Post by jojo on Nov 4, 2008 15:23:37 GMT
Hi colcon, Got the marriage cert. today Re. Robert Davies and Sarah Jones. Disappointed !!! I have ........ Robert Davies 28 Bachelor labourer Pen y Bryn, Llandegla son of John Labourer Sarah Jones 22 Spinster Pen y Bryn dau David (Farmer) Our Robert was a Widower and should be aged 32 and living at Tan y bryn Back to the records for more searching!!!!!!! Unless you have any more thoughts gordon For what it's worth, I do not think that you should be so quick to discount this certificate. The details for Sarah Jones, age and father's name and occupation match with what we know of the Sarah who married Robert Davies. Robert Davies father's name and occupation match with what you have from the first marriage certificate. From what has been noted on previous posts Robert Davies given age on various censuses was not consistent. The location of residence at the time of the marriage may have been a farm where they were both working - it does not signify where they were born. So the only other discrepancy to discount this out of hand is Robert Davies married state of Bachelor or Widower. Just as some couples would not identify if their father's were deceased at the time of their marriage, there have been instances where people were superstitious or uncomfortable bringing up another spouse on their "happy" day. It is also helpful to identify who were the witnesses. Does anyone know offhand where Pen y Bryn Llandegla is/was located?
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Post by gogs on Nov 4, 2008 15:56:47 GMT
Thanks jojo, I've have been thinking about since I posted that reply and I agree it should not be discounted completely. Tan y Bryn/Pen y Bryn ?? Too close to discount . Could it be a slip of the pen or hearing ?? His age has varied by a few years all along the line . So we can't rule that out also.
Let' wait and see what anybody else comes up with.
Witnesses = Henry Davies. Robert----- had a brother, Henry. Elizabeth Davies ---- Don't know
Other factor .......... Sarah gives father as David... Farmer. Sarah Jones from Llanderfel had a father David who was a farmer.
We'll see
Gogs
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Post by colcon on Nov 4, 2008 16:04:29 GMT
Hello Eluned in particular
Reply 103 by Tominera and your Reply 104 refer.
My turn to ask: What's this all about?
The Llandegla- born John Davies who is one of the main subjects of this thread (the grandfather of Trevor Davies on whose behalf Gogs/Gordon is conducting his researches) was born at Llandegla in 1873/74. This particular John Davies moved away from the Wrexham area between 1901 and 1906 to Wigan and apparently he walked there.
This John Davies' father Robert Davies was born in the Denbigh area in 1845 and moved to Llandegla around 1873. He moved to the Minera parish around 1878 but as yet it has not been established when or where Robert Davies died.
I'm not sure as to where Clifford Davies' grandfather was born but in the booklet 'In Living Memory' it is indicated that: "When Mr Davies was 28 years old he left the pits to become landlord of The Crown Hotel at Llandegla".
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Post by annedw on Nov 4, 2008 16:36:15 GMT
In his book Not Long Ago , by Glyn Davies ( JC`s father ) he says that in 1929 he and his wife went to look at the Crown Hotel , Llandegla. He says that he ( Glyn) his wife and daughter Megan aged 9 months started a new life there. Also Glyn says that his connection with Ty Brith commenced in 1898 when his grandfather ( John Davies ) took over the tenancy. In 1899 they left Pant Y Terfyn Rhydtalog for Ty Brith. NB. dates are as in the book. Glyn Davies 1901-1965 ( source Glyn Davies The Boxer by JC Davies ) I had the book to hand, I was reading it last night , and get the impression that even though he doesn`t actually say so that John Davies was from Llanarmon yn Ial Seems we`re getting our Davies mixed up here. Nice bit of info on JC though
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Post by tominera on Nov 4, 2008 18:08:09 GMT
Hi, I was just trying to help by mentioning a John Davies with correct dob is buried in Coedpoeth Cemetery as are several Robert Davies,s with a pretty near match to his dob and various spouses Sarah--- -Jane----Margaret etc but as this does not seem to be any help and is misleading SORRY Bye Tom
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Post by annedw on Nov 4, 2008 18:29:06 GMT
Don`t apologise Tom, with a common name like Davies , how can anyone be 100% sure that any one of them is not connected to any of the others People moved around a lot in those days. Just remember , you have a lot of useful info at hand that others wouldn`t get if it wasn`t for you and your hard work.
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Post by jojo on Nov 4, 2008 18:53:02 GMT
To Tom Please don't apologize. You have helped so many people since joining the board and you are WELCOME to jump in and contribute at ANY time as it is a pleasure to have your local knowledge and input.
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Post by colcon on Nov 5, 2008 12:55:35 GMT
Hello Gordon
I'm trying to clear up some loose ends.
In Reply 95(30 Oct) as previously numbered but now Reply 92 you indicated that at the time of the 1873(6 Aug) Clocaenog marriage Robert was living in Llandegla and was a labourer.
His Llandegla residency was not quite what I had anticipated! I had expected it to be, if not the Clocaenog parish itself, somewhere close to the Clocaenog village ( eg, in the parish of Llanfwrog or possibly in the Derwen parish).
For example, the village of Clawddnewydd is/was in the Derwen parish but is located only one mile from Clocaenog village; and the boundary of the Llanfwrog parish is very near to the Clocaenog village.
In my Reply 28 Oct (old 82;now 80) I suggested the presence at Llandegla of Ellen Davies/Harnaman's uncle ( constable James H) had something to do with them getting the Tan y Bryn house and Robert a job.
I can now only hazard a guess that Robert had already moved to Llandegla just shortly before their 1873 marriage.
As hard as I have tried, I have not yet found the Llandyrnog-born Robert Davies anywhere in the 1871 census.
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Post by gogs on Nov 5, 2008 13:15:32 GMT
Hi colcon, I know what you mean. I too have searched high and low for Robert in 1871 and found nothing. What do you think about the Robert/Sarah marriage?
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Post by colcon on Nov 5, 2008 17:00:10 GMT
Hello Gordon- back again
In my Reply(31 Oct) old number 97 and now Reply 94 I gave you some details of the Llandyrnog 1861 census for the Davies family at Pont-horn which supplemented the details for the Davies family 1851 census which you yourself had found.
'Ystrad' (Llandyrnog parish) which I referred to as 'estate/farm' would actually have been Ystrad Hall. The nearby farm premises would have been have been part of the same 312-acres Ystrad Hall holding which in 1861 census was occupied by William Williams, his wife and one son plus 8 servants.
On looking up the Ystrad area of Denbigh in the current Postal Codes Directory I was very surprised to find 'Pont Horn' listed there. As Pont-horn 1871 census (2 parts - probably semi-detached cottages) both were then uninhabited I had thought that these had fallen into disuse. Pont-horn would certainly have been tied cottages on the Ystrad Hall holding.
The website of the reputable Clwyd-Powys Archaelogical Trust mentions that "the hall of 19-th century character at Ystrad Hall has been demolished " but an Ordnance Survey map (1990 edition) for the area shows both Ystrad Hall and Ystrad Farm. Ystrad Hall is listed in the Postal Codes directory but not Ystrad Farm as such.
The Ystrad area is some 4 miles as the crow flies to the west of village area of Llandyrnog but only about one mile south-east of the Denbigh town centre.
With the same postal code as Pont Horn is listed 'Coach House'. Since Robert Davies' father John Davies' occupation 1861 census was 'Coach Man domestic Servant' the Davieses may have moved from Pont Horn to the Coach House. As yet however I have not been able to find them in the 1871 census.
I will have to come back to you, probably tomorrow, concerning the Robert/Sarah marriage.
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Post by colcon on Nov 6, 2008 18:20:36 GMT
Hello Gordon
Please refer to your two replies concerning the 'Llanddulas ladies' - a) previously Reply 92(30 Oct) but now 89 on 'Page 3 of 4' and b) previously Reply 93 (also 30 Oct) but now Reply 90.
In a) with reference to Jane, Miriam and Annie/Ann ( John Davies' 3 half-sisters) you mentioned that 2 of them finished up living in Llanddulas and in b) the two Llanddulas ladies were known as Min and Jinny.
Min and Jinny could well be diminitives/pet names for Miriam and Jane as you suggested.
You thought that maybe they were spinsters. Rather than spinsters what about one or both of them being widows?
In my Reply 91 (old number) but now Reply 88(30 Oct) I provided details of two possible marriages for Miriam Davies, one in 1913 and the other in 1916( both Wrexham civil marriages).
It seems that Miriam at least did marry - she is probably one or the other of these 1913 and 1916 marriages.
In the same reply I mentioned the difficulties of identifying the marriages for Jane and Ann/Annie/Anne Davies because of the numerous marriages in the Wrexham area for these names. Their marriages could of course be elsewhere other than the Wrexham area.
A correction. In my reply (30 Oct) previously 96 but now 93 concerning the Bala (Llandderfel) parents of Sarah Jones/Davies I referred to them as Robert Davies' step-parents in law. They were of course Robert's parents in law but John Davies' step-grandparents.
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Post by annedw on Nov 6, 2008 19:02:33 GMT
1901 Even though Miriam aged 14 was working away from home, her big sister Ann aged 21 was close at hand. Salop Road and Beechley Road are within about three minutes walk from each other.
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Post by colcon on Nov 8, 2008 11:25:18 GMT
Hello Gordon
I have not been idle the last few days; been to Ruthin Records Office, visiting the Clocaenog Churchyard, etc.
Details are given below of:- a) The marriage details for Ellen/Ellin Ann/Anne Harnaman's parents - Joseph Harnaman, born Llanfwrog, Ruthin and Anne Lewis, born Clocaenog, Ruthin;
b) The marriage details (which you already have but included here to link 3 generations) - Ellen Anne Harnaman, and the Llandyrnog-born Robert Davies. Robert's father John Davies, Llandyrnog had died more than 12 years' before this August 1873 marriage but the fact he was 'deceased' is not included in the marriage details; and,
c) The baptisms details for Joseph & Anne Harnaman 's 10 children as listed in the Clocaenog parish register. Ellen (born 1853) and one of her brothers William James (born 1856)(both born in the Wallasey area) were baptised at Clocaenog in 1860 after the family had returned to Clocaenog.
CLOCAENOG PARISH REGISTERS MARRIAGES REGISTER Marriage 1873: Robert Davies and Ellen Anne Harnaman 6 August 1873 Robert Davies 25 Bachelor Labourer Llandegla Father: John Davies Labourer Ellen Anne Harnaman 20 Spinster Kitchen maid at Pool Park Abode: Clocaenog Father: Joseph Harnaman Parish Clerk
MARRIAGES REGISTER Marriage 1846: Ellen/Ellin's parents Joseph & Anne Harnaman 25 December 1846 Joseph Harnaman Full age Bachelor Gardener Ty Coch Father: William Harnaman Gardener Anne Lewis Full age Spinster Maidservant Ty Coch Father: Edward Lewis Carpenter
BAPTISMS REGISTER Children of Joseph & Anne Harnaman Baptisms of 10 children including 3 baptised on 28 January 1860 - Joseph Lewis (born Clocaenog Jan 1860), Ellen Anne/Ann (born: New Brighton, Wallasey 1853 April-June), and William James (born: Mago.....rest unreadable in 1861 census details.....Wallasey 1856April-June)
The 10 baptisms: a) 17 June 1849 Maria b) 30 March 1851 Hannah c) 28 January 1860 Ellen Anne d) 28 January 1860 William James e) 28 January 1860 Joseph Lewis e) 7April 1861 Elizabeth (this Elizabeth died in 1862) g) 11 January 1863 Elizabeth h)25 December 1864 Anne Maria i) 1 January 1869 Sarah Alice and j) 26 June 1871 Jonathon Jacob (Hannah above - Mary Hannah in Births Register)
Abodes: 1849 - Clawddnewydd(Derwen parish); 1851 Ty Capel (Clocaenog); all the others above - Ty coch bach, Clocaenog
Joseph Harnaman's trade/profession - 1849 Turnpike gate keeper; 1851 Servant at the Rectory; all the others above Parish Clerk
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Post by annedw on Nov 8, 2008 15:18:34 GMT
I think James was also born New Brighton, in the 1871 census it looks like Magozine, I know there is the Battery in New Brighton , and also the Magazine Prom. LH side of page , bottom pic. This is a nice site with pics from when New Brighton was a popular day out. www.oldukphotos.com/cheshire_new_brighton.htm
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Post by gogs on Nov 8, 2008 19:22:35 GMT
Thanks colcon, Got all that. My, you have been busy and successful. Love all that info re. Ystrad. Had a look at Ordnance Survey and found it still there. Any thoughts on Robert/Sarah yet ?
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