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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 13:31:06 GMT
Hi all again, John Mason(2) this time What I know..... John Mason(2) b. c1817 Trefalwyn (Montgomery I think?) m. 1841 to Mary Chalenor b. 28/4/1820 Minera John(2) m.cert. has him as flour dealer (presumably beast market). Children Joseph and Sarah. Father is John(1) Mason Publican b. c.1797 living at Hope Street Wrexham d. 17/4/1860 in Manchester. Would like to know name of John(1)'s wife if poss and anything else know about either (1) or (2) hope all this helps Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 13:38:51 GMT
Hi Ronnie I was struggling with his place of birth ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ...but you mentioned Trefalwyn and there is a Trefaldwyn ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) eluned
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 13:41:50 GMT
sorry typo eluned
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 13:52:12 GMT
Just wondering where in Wrexham John Mason's marriage to Mary took place, I see it was a civil one. Also who were the witnesses please? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 13:56:05 GMT
Have you located them in 1841?
Although most of the area for that census is missing, there are transcriptions available for the town centre and there are Mason's listed on the index.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 13:57:52 GMT
marriage at Independent Chapel Wrexham, in the presence of Sarah Chaloner, David Jones (mentioned twice) and Matthew Jones. Independents by me Richard Hughes Registrar and R.Brown Minister Ronnie
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 14:04:53 GMT
Jill's list shows a John (Baker and Flour dealer Beast market) a William in Yorke Street, a John ( grocer and Tea dealer) Beast Market, a John (maltster) Brook Street and John Mason OLD THREE TUNS Brook Street
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 14:04:54 GMT
marriage at Independent Chapel Wrexham, in the presence of Sarah Chaloner, David Jones (mentioned twice) and Matthew Jones. Independents by me Richard Hughes Registrar and R.Brown Minister Ronnie What a shame I was hoping for some more Mason's ;D Was this Pentrefelin or Pen y Bryn? I notice on Genuki these are the Independent chapels mentioned. Here's the link incase you haven't come across this site. www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Wrexham/index.htmlmodified to show which post I was answering ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 14:08:48 GMT
Don't know eluned. m.cert says Registration District Wrexham, Independent Chapel Wrexam in the Counties of Flint Denbigh & Chester
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Post by annedw on Sept 14, 2009 14:26:27 GMT
I would say it was Penybryn. Richard Brown was ordained as Minister there on December 26th 1838, James Adams succeeded him in 1843 Lots of families who had children baptised at Penybryn also seemed to use Wern.
Just moving John to the right thread. 1851 HO107; Piece: 2192; Folio: 455; Page: 24 Living in King Street, West Derby, Liverpool John Mason age 34 book keeper, born Montgomeryshire. Mary wife 29, b Wrexham Son, Joseph I ? aged 8 b Wrexham Dau, Sarah aged 6 b Liverpool.
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 15:58:39 GMT
MODIFIED Sorry if I caused some confusion. "Jill's list shows a John (Baker and Flour dealer Beast market) a William in Yorke Street, a John ( grocer and Tea dealer) Beast Market, a John (maltster) Brook Street and John Mason OLD THREE TUNS Brook Street "Just posting this to help rule families mentioned here, in or out. 1851 Beast Market HO107/2503, f.490, pg.35 John Mason H unm 22 grocer & provision dealer John Mason father wid 53 maltster Emma Mason sister unm 29 housekeeper Edward Mason brother " 20 grocer & ironmonger James Mason " 7 Thomas Mason " 6 Mary Ann Mason sister 5 All b.Wrexham Mary Dawson servant 20 b.Salop Not sure if the family on the next schedule are the same family ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) So this isn't likely to be yours but is "John (maltster) Brook Street"Have you got your John senior in 1851?
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 16:32:24 GMT
![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Thanks, thinking about this Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Sept 14, 2009 16:34:47 GMT
I didn`t know this ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Tre Faldwyn was actually Montgomery. So were the Masons from there , or from Wrexham , and just happened to be there when John was born in 1817. National Gazetteer, 1868 "MONTGOMERY, a parish, market town, municipal and parliamentary borough, In later times it was called Tre-Faldwyn, or "the town of Baldwyn", from a lieutenant of the Marches in the time of William the Conqueror, who built a castle here. .
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 16:55:55 GMT
Hi Ronnie, How have you confirmed the John Mason who died in Manchester as yours please? I assume you aquired his age from this death cert? eluned ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by annedw on Sept 14, 2009 17:49:19 GMT
Pigots directory for Wrexham 1828/29. Public Houses John Mason, Old Three Tuns, Brook Street. Grocers John Mason,& flour Charles Street Boot and shoemaker William Mason , York Street
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 18:17:32 GMT
It's occured to me that if the address given here "Father is John(1) Mason Publican b. c.1797 living at Hope Street Wrexham" is from the marriage cert, then wouldn't this be John juniors address and not his father's.
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 18:31:04 GMT
1841 Wrexham John Mason's listed:
John Mason 20 Grocer J Hope Street John Mason 39 Corn Dealer Beast Market Ann " 27 Emma " 19 John " 12 Edward " 10 John Mason 50 Malster Well Street Mary Mason 51 Dressmaker
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 18:51:06 GMT
Sorry got interrupted! Eluned: I apologize profusely!! John (1) b. c1797 died 17/4/1860 in WREXHAM not Manchester. This taken from his death certificate living Holt Street, Occupation at time of death :Proprietor of Houses although previously at time of marriage of his son John(2) his (John (1)) profession was Publican! I hope this makes things clearer. Annette: I suspect Old Three Tuns John(1) is mine as may be John(2) Flour Dealer. Not sure about the others yet.
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 14, 2009 19:02:08 GMT
D. cert definitely says died Holt Terrace Wrexham John (2) residence of informant:- Newton Heath, Manchester.
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 19:21:04 GMT
Thanks Ronnie ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by eluned on Sept 14, 2009 21:20:54 GMT
Hiya Have you thought of looking to see if John Mason senior left a will? The calendars of probate indexes are available on film or fiche in most record offices and some archive depts. They are searchable by year, best to look for a few years following somones death just incase, and they are in alphabtical order. A will may give information on other family members. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 12:59:47 GMT
No sign of a John mason in the directories prior to the one Annedw found for you in 1828/9.
1835 Pigot's Bakers & flour dealers - John Mason, Beast Market
Maltsters - John Mason, Brook St
Old Three Tuns - John Mason, Brook St
1840 Robson's John Mason - Baker, Beast Market
John Mason - Old Three Tuns, Brook Side
John Mason - Shopkeeper, Beast Market
1850 Slater's Bakers & flour dealers - John Mason, Beast Market
Maltsters - John Mason, Hen Blas St
Shopkeepers - Mary Mason, Pentre Felin John Mason jun, Beast Market
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 15, 2009 13:06:49 GMT
Thanks Eluned, I think we are really going to struggle with this one, although I am fairly sure that John the malster and publican of Old Three Tun is mine as is his son the flour dealer. Wish I could be sure. Following your suggestion I will look into the Will side of things, I had not thought of that, thanks. Plenty of Mason's about but which ones are mine? Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 13:18:52 GMT
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 15, 2009 14:27:53 GMT
A question in passing.... would there be any benefit in my visiting Ruthin Archives at some stage? Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Sept 15, 2009 14:29:41 GMT
John Mason 50 Malster Well Street There is a Well Place, in Wrexham now, and it is a tiny street only about 20 yards long. It is adjacent to Brook Street and guess which pub is on the corner, The Three Tuns, but now it`s closed ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png) and is now the Railway Workers Social Club The original pub was knocked down for the railway, and the existing building is about 1896. The window with the posters in is facing Well Place. I have a contact that knows a lot about Wrexham Pubs, and have asked him for help. Hopefully John Mason might be mentioned somewhere in his notes. www.flickr.com/photos/jonesthecamera/460329823
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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 14:39:57 GMT
There aren't any John Mason's in 1861 Wrexham. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I have searched elsewhere and....... John from the 1851 that I found "H unm 22 grocer & provision dealer" is living Newton Heath, Manchester.......... ;D 1861 Oldham Rd RG9/2965, f.87, pg.40 John Mason H mar 32 shoe dealer b.Wrexham Elizabeth " wife 32 b.Newton Heath, Manchester Thomas " brother 16 app. shoemaker b.Wrexham I am now wondering if Ronnie has the wrong certificate ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 14:49:07 GMT
Back to the John Mason marrying Mary Chaloner. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) We know he lived in Wrexham, born Trefaldwyn, Montgomery and his father was a also John and a publican. eluned ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by ronniemason on Sept 15, 2009 14:59:03 GMT
Thank you Annette, I was aware of the old old three tuns but if your contact has any further info I am sure it would be most useful. I had seen somewhere that the original had been relocated but I didn't realise that it may have only been by a few yards! Eluned, you are correct although I had this John as passing in 1865 I think that this is wrong and that rather tragically he died between burying his father 17th April 1860 and 31 March 1861 census night.
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Post by eluned on Sept 15, 2009 15:07:53 GMT
Hi Ronnie, Too many John's I'm afraid and I confuse easily ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Who are you refering to here please? "Eluned, you are correct although I had this John as passing in 1865 I think that this is wrong and that rather tragically he died between burying his father 17th April 1860 and 31 March 1861 census night." I don't think the Three Tun Mason's are yours ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) The John Mason registering the death of John Mason in 1860 Wrexham and living Manchester is this one below. 1861 Newton Heath, Manchester Oldham Rd RG9/2965, f.87, pg.40 John Mason H mar 32 shoe dealer b.Wrexham Elizabeth " wife 32 b.Newton Heath, Manchester Thomas " brother 16 app. shoemaker b.Wrexham I doubt if John Mason senior had two sons called John, although it is possible. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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