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Post by eluned on Oct 8, 2009 9:58:31 GMT
Thanks Ronnie, I was just pondering on John Juniors jobs thats all. BOOK KEEPER: looked after the accounts for businessesCOLLECTOR: we would assume collected the monies due.
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 8, 2009 10:09:36 GMT
I've ordered a couple of possible death certificates for John Mason (Jnr) in Liverpool area plus a birth certificate for Sarah. Not sure if they will tell us anything much we don't know but here's hoping.
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 8, 2009 10:10:21 GMT
Quite likely. Possibly worked for Courtaulds, as his son Joseph and Jane and Grandson William certainly did.
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Post by eluned on Oct 8, 2009 10:36:35 GMT
I've ordered a couple of possible death certificates for John Mason (Jnr) in Liverpool area plus a birth certificate for Sarah. Not sure if they will tell us anything much we don't know but here's hoping. Hi Patrick and welcome Hi Ronnie, What is/was Courtaulds please? MODIFIED From then on the Mason's were in the cloth trade in Manchester and the family all comes from Manchester after that. This must be the buisness you mention
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Post by annedw on Oct 8, 2009 11:12:17 GMT
You probably have had knickers made by Courtalds, I did ;D My first sewing job was at Granby Graments on the Wrexham Industrial Estate, a part of Courtalds, over the years it changed it`s name, but eventully went back to being Courtalds until it closed some years ago. Cheap labour in other countries , when did you last see an item on lingerie from Marks and Sparks that was `Made in Britain `. They did have a yarn manufacturing works in Flint as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courtaulds
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 8, 2009 13:20:14 GMT
Heavens we're talking about knickers now!!! OK so they were in the knicker business
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 8, 2009 18:16:02 GMT
Thanks for the welcome - and thanks for all your help so far. Amazing thread.
As for knickers! - according to Wikipedia: "Courtaulds Textiles is Britain's largest producer of lingerie and underwear. The organization ... has annual turnover exceeding £1billion, 40% of which is earned by sales to Marks & Spencer. It markets its products under leading retailer labels across the world as well as its own reputed brands which include Aristoc, Berlei and Gossard and Well" Most production is offshore now of course.
As for a Welsh connection, it might be too early as it was only in 1917 that things started. "German Glanzstoff Manufacturing Company started an artificial silk factory in Flint in 1907. During World War I the factory was taken over by Courtaulds in 1917, who in 1920 built Castle Works followed the Deeside Mill in 1922. At its height Courtaulds employed over 10,000 people at four sites. At Greenfield, Flintshire, some 5 miles further down the Dee estuary, two additional large rayon production facilities existed from 1936 onwards, named Number 1 and Number 2. These mills employed over 3,000 people. Textile production declined from 1950, and Aber works shut initially in 1957, opened for rayon in 1966, and pulled down in 1984. Castle works closed in 1977 and Deeside Mill in 1989. The number 1 facility at Greenfield was mothballed in 1978, and the entire site was decommissioned in the mid 1980s."
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Post by annedw on Oct 14, 2009 17:12:28 GMT
Getting back to John Mason in 1841. I`ve taken all the Masons that were in Wrexham, and put them together as they were in each household. Our John is still the odd one out. The only connection with the people he was in the same household with is that Thomas Francis was also born Mongomeryshire. Great help 1841 Wrexham Census. Hope StreetThomas Mason 25 Shoemaker Y Margaret “ 25 N Thomas “ 4 Y Elizabeth “ 2 Y Mary “ 4 months Y Joseph Wood 18 Shop Ass N Thomas Wood 19 “ N Ann Phillips 15 FS Y Beast MarketMary Mason 70 Y Eleanor “ 29 Y Samuel “ 20 Y Beast MarketJohn Mason 39 Corn dealer Y Ann “ 27 Y Emma “ 19 Y John “ 12 Y Edward “ 10 Y Mary Mathias 20 FS Y Beast Market ( next household) Martha Thomas 61 Ind Y Edward “ 37 Coach M Y Edmund Mason 14 Y George Jackson 10 Y Martha “ 6 Y John “ 4 Y Eliza “ 3 Y Yorke StreetWilliam Mason 34 Shoemaker Y Anne “ 32 N William “ 6 Y Samuel “ 4 Y Edward “ 3 Y Emma “ infant Y Well StreetJohn Mason 50 Maltster Y Mary “ 51 Dressmaker Y Anne Owen 23 FS Y Richard Benbow ? 26 Tailor N Hope StreetThos Francis 40 Grocer N Eliz. “ 40 Y John Mason 20 Grocer J NEbenezer Jones 20 Grocer J N HO107; Piece: 2503; Folio: 544; Page: 19; In 1851 Thomas and Eliz. both aged 51 are still Grocers at Hope Street, Thomas was born Marinford ?? Montgomeryshire. Eliz. in Llangollen. Class: RG9; Piece: 4287; Folio: 90; Page: 47 1861 Thomas and Eliz still at Hope Street, Born Llanfair, Montgomeryshire.
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 19, 2009 9:13:04 GMT
Hi everyone, just back from a week in the sun, thanks to Annette for the listing of Mason's in 1841. In 1841 John jnr. would have been 24, was 1841 the year ages were rounded down sometimes? And also just to clarify is Thos and Elizabeth surname FRANCIS or is this Thos second name? i.e. was John a lodger? regards Ronnie
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Post by eluned on Oct 19, 2009 9:33:12 GMT
In 1841 Thomas and Elizabeth, surname Francis, have John Mason living with them. This early census does not give as much information as the later ones and doesn't give "relationship" to head so also doesn't give if someone was a lodger unfortunately. All their ages have been rounded down in this instance, which only occurs in the 1841 census.
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Post by annedw on Oct 23, 2009 12:27:04 GMT
I was sent this info but you will have to pay for full details 8 credits a `view` You will find a John Mason born 1818 Montgomeryshire in the Montgomeryshire parish records data on Findmypast www.findmypast.com/lbSearchStart.action?redef=0#60 credits lasting for 90 days = £6.95 Not bad I suppose.
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 23, 2009 21:27:53 GMT
Wow Annette, this is great news! I will certainly have a look. Thanks very much to you and whoever sent you the link. Will keep you posted. Ronnie
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Post by ronniemason on Oct 23, 2009 22:02:36 GMT
Well sadly, this is not our John Jnr. the record shows:father Thomas Mason Labourer living Ty Coch. Birth at Llanfechain. Never mind...Worth the try Ronnie
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Post by annedw on Oct 24, 2009 8:40:23 GMT
I wonder if John was also from a Non Conformist family. Oh well, back to the drawing board .
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 27, 2009 10:58:01 GMT
Just a quick question - does the 1841 census check you did for Wrexham also include Minera? Or is there a separate listing for Minera? My thought was, in December 1841 John Jnr was in Hope Street (according to Marriage Cert) but on census date, June 6th, he could have been lodging in Minera - he may have met Mary there (she was only 19/20 then). He was certainly living in Minera a year after the wedding - in Jan 1843 when Joseph was born - so perhaps moved there after the marriage. Could be a red herring...!
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Post by annedw on Oct 27, 2009 11:22:01 GMT
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Post by eluned on Oct 27, 2009 15:10:03 GMT
Hi Ronnie and Patrick, I'm guessing the certificates didn't turn up anything new eluned
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 28, 2009 8:52:41 GMT
Hi eluned I ordered 2 different death certificates from W Derby (1859) and Liverpool (1858) but put in a check to ensure they were for a John Mason who was a Bookkeeper. Neither passed this test so the GRO didn't send me the certificates (but I did get a part refund!). I will try the other 2 now - one in 1857 and one in 1855 and see what they bring.
Sarah's birth certificate was indeed right. She was born the second child of John & Mary on 30th March 1845, and family were in Garden Street, West Derby, Liverpool. John was a Bookkeeper. So no new information really.
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Post by annedw on Oct 28, 2009 9:10:57 GMT
I`m sure you know this, but it`s best to give as much info as possible, names of all children and the wife, last known address and Year of birth. You can always change an occupation.
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 28, 2009 9:32:38 GMT
I have never seen any fields in the GRO application for "other info" - they only allow checking on Birth date, Address, Marital Status and Occupation.
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Post by eluned on Oct 28, 2009 10:50:18 GMT
This may depend on if you apply to the local office or GRO also if you apply online or write. Most local offices will return your cheque if they can't find the certificate you require and therefore it costs you nothing. I mostly deal with the local Register Offices but this isn't always possible and unfortunately not all of them are as helpful as Wrexham. I don't have experience of ordering from anywhere in Lancashire I'm afraid, so can't tell you about any of their local offices. eluned
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 28, 2009 12:02:38 GMT
Thanks - I didn't know you could order from the local office, as I have been using the www.gro.gov.uk website.
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Post by annedw on Oct 28, 2009 13:43:29 GMT
If you find your entry on Free BMD, ie John Mason West Derby Sept 1859. Click the number 279, you get another page with all the entries on that page. Below the list of names , ` click here for what to do now` Ordering Certificates. It tells you how to go about ordering from the Local Register office. Follow the links and you should come to this page. www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/regoff.html#025I always phone the Local Register Office, they are usually very helpful. Your West Derby will be at Liverpool. The Register Office, The Cotton Exchange, Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L3 9UF. Tel: 0151 233 3004. Fax: 0151 233 4944. E-mail: registrar@liverpool.gov.uk At times when I had a dead end, in the case of an illegitimate birth, they told me over the phone - no father, Mary Jones, mother, save me wasting my time. Usually, they will also phone you if they can`t find a match or are not sure to see if you still want the certificate. When I don`t they have not cashed my cheque and binned the application form.
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Post by patrickmason2 on Oct 28, 2009 15:16:47 GMT
Very helpful - I didn't know about the free BMD site!! It's great.
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Post by ann35a on Oct 29, 2009 9:22:28 GMT
West Derby is one of my main search areas and until you crack the code it can be very frustrating as there are now several local registry offices covering the district. Which one you need to apply to depends on the address. They sometimes pass on requests between offices but this can take a long time. Very few addresses are covered by the Liverpool office. The main local offices are Sefton South and Sefton North.
South Sefton Sefton South Register Office Town Hall Great Georges Road L22 1RB Telephone Number 0151 934 3044 Areas covered: Bootle, Crosby, Seaforth, Litherland, Crosby, Hightown, Aintree, Maghull, Lydiate North Sefton Sefton North Register Office Corporation Street Southport PR8 1DA Telephone Number 0151 934 2012 Areas covered: Crossens, Churchtown, Marshside, Hesketh Park, High Park, Browick, Kew, Town Centre, Ainsdale, Birkdale, Hillside, Woodvale, Fresheild, Formby, Little Altcar , most of Ince Blundell
If you are not sure of the precise location it is simpler to apply to the GRO in Southport.
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Post by annedw on Nov 7, 2009 14:48:47 GMT
Just to add another stick to the fire. Deaths, North Wales Chronicle (Bangor, Wales), Friday, March 11, 1853 6th inst at Gwersyllt aged 11 Mr John Mason, maltster, Wrexham I wasn`t looking for John Mason, just browsing for Gwersyllt. Surely the age is wrong. 1851 John Mason 22 grocer John Mason 53 maltster Modified As "inst.", abbreviation for "instante mense", meaning a date of the current month, such as "the 5th inst."
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Post by ronniemason on Nov 9, 2009 11:39:12 GMT
Thanks Annette, will take this into consideration. maybe they matured early in those days!!!!! Interesting one!
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Post by ronniemason on Nov 9, 2009 11:48:01 GMT
When looking at this, Annette, were you looking at a transcription or the original? Coincidental march 11 age 11??
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Post by annedw on Nov 9, 2009 15:04:11 GMT
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Post by ronniemason on Nov 9, 2009 16:11:52 GMT
This is puzzling!!
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